Warning From a Best-Selling Author

WW, there are a lot of assumptions you've made that I have to admit, sound very, very fishy. Let me list them for you:

1. 8 years after you send your manuscript in, you discover a similar book to yours.

2. You pay a lawyer who hires an investigator who discovers that one of the employees sent your manuscript to one of their authors. 8 years later, this investigator finds proof of this correspondence? Really? I wonder what proof it was? A copy of the email? A copy of the snail-mail receipt? A stamped envelope with the enclosed manuscript inside? Can you think of how someone could ever track down proof of this correspondence? It just seems so convenient that it's um, too good to be true. Was it after that that they asked for the retainer?

3. We must assume that the author actually read your manuscript. Why would they do that? What would the letter from the publisher have said that would compel a writer to read a slush-pile submission, and then stop writing their original stuff, and instead write some derivative of your work? They did that knowing full well that what they were doing could destroy their career if you ever came forward. This is after they'd already proven they could write stuff, since obviously they were already an author. More than that, they were banking on the fact that they could write the book from scratch, and get it published, before you found a publisher or agent for your work. Does that sound sane to you? I say this because you must know that ideas are a dime a dozen. Every author has a million ideas. They don't need to steal an idea. Also, where a million ideas are concerned, the odds of overlap are, 100% possible. Likely in fact. Which is where the "THERE ARE NO NEW IDEAS" rule comes from.

4. If they - the publisher - liked it that much. Enough to bother their own writers with it. Why didn't they just buy your book?

5. You indicate "phrases" as being copied word for word. Unless those phrases are really, really unique, I'd be careful. I bet I could find a hundred similar phrases from my books in a hundred other books. Can you give us an example of a verbatim copy?

6. In 8 years of you seeking publication, you never got your manuscript sold, and you never found an agent. Yet the one that was copied by you sold millions of copies. Think about that for a second. What does that tell you? What does that tell you about the main assumption you've made: that your book was so good it was sent to another author for a reading.

7. The publisher you submitted to is a major press. It must be, since you said a) they have their books available not only in all book stores, but in all department stores too. and b) they have millions of sales of a single title. So you're accusing a major press of engaging in active copyright infringement. If there are no other such claims against this publisher, you're also suggesting that your manuscript was the only one worthy of such infringement. It's odd, because why didn't they just make you an offer for it?

8. All signs point to you assuming something that is simply so far-fetched it's outside the realm of possibility. There may be more to this story, but right now, I would urge you to be very, very careful. Every year some hack writer (not saying that's you) sues a successful writer and claims they stole the idea. It happens all the time. The truth comes out and guess whose career is ruined? Guess what happens when you write something else, and send it to a publisher, and they google your name and see you sued James Patterson or whoever it was that you think stole your idea.

9. Consider the timing that you suggest from when they could have read your work, to when their first book would have been published. Consider that carefully and decide if there was even enough time to write, produce, market, etc. Can you tell us how long it was from when you got your rejection, to when their book was published?

Final thought: You are warning authors to be careful. But you're claiming that you were stolen from by a major publisher. So what are you suggesting people do? Not submit to major publishers? Be careful about submitting to major publishers?

 

I wondered why you responded to my thread in such a hostile manner, then came across this reply.

It's all clear to me now.

 

This was the things a lawyer should have told MM. The simplest answer is usually the right one, and what MM is suggesting is so complicated that it is almost impossible, but at the minimum, it's improbable.

 

I'd agree. While I don't want to call BS, my gut is that while the two stories may be quite similar the passages, even if verbatim, are generic and obvious enough that many writers making that kind of story would have included them, and that this is a case of co-incidence. A case that is very common in the film and book world. The OP genuinely believes their copyright has been infringed, so I won't make comment about that, but I will 'say' that I once wrote a passage that I heard verbatim on screen in a film. But I had never sent or shown what I wrote to anyone.

 

I've only started writing seriously recently and I've never attempted to publish nor know anything about it, but I assumed that the publisher sends you back your manuscript after they've rejected it?

 

There's just something about the whole scenario that defies logic. It isn't impossible: There could have been a bad apple among the submissions editors or one of their executive assistants.

However, what successful publisher or agent would make such a colossally stupid blunder? There's nothing really to be gained from ripping off a submitted membership, and so much to lose if tey are caught. Furthermore, the chances of being caught are very high. The same logic applies to the author who receives someone else
s manuscript.

So let's assume everything happened exactly as word whisperer has told us, and there aren't factors that aren't apparent. It has to be an extremely rare occurrence. I still believe there would be a way a sharklike lawyer would find a way to prosecute this, if you toss the chum in the right waters. I could be wrong though, I'm not a lawyer. The thing is, I don't think the warning is necessary, because most agents and publishers aren't stupid enough to pull such a stunt.

 

No, in the rare occurrence that a paper manuscript is submitted, it's shredded/recycled if it's rejected.

The other thing that is odd about this situation is that it defies the way things work at a publisher. You need to understand that a major publisher who accepts unagented submissions gets a staggering number of submissions every day. Staggering!

 

So a rejected story that should have been scrapped or recycled was saved by some unlikely employee, given to another writer, and that writer waited eight years to publish this now successful series? Something seems sketch.

 

There is a possibility. The publisher may have had nothing to do with the plagiarism. A reader from a different publisher (maybe an inexperienced intern) could have taken the work home to read, or it got rejected but the reader liked it and took it home to show a friend. It found it's way to the friend who was a budding writer. The writer asked to keep it to read it because hey, they like reading. Then, while working on their own story, started taking bits they liked from the rejected work due to their own lack of inspiration. They kept doing it brazenly, and sent it to a publisher who was totally unaware of the orginal work, who then liked it and published it.

I'm not saying this happened but people dismissing the idea of copyright infringment because the publisher wouldn't do it miss the point that the publisher may have been oblivious.

 

Hello, mammamaia. That was part of the discussion with each lawyer. Since they knew which author I was talking about, they knew how much money she was making on the series. They still passed on it. Maybe they weren't established or confident enough to take the case. I was new to all of this. I just called the lawyers in my area, learning as I went. I still don't know everything about copyright infringement. Unfortunately, I had to learn some.

word whisperer

 

Is... This... Actually true? Could you give a clue about the series?

Also, you published one story, but the author has a series. Something is not right...

 

Hello again, mbear. I know what you mean. It would be like me going to see a lawyer who specializes in accidents. He wouldn't be very helpful. I've only seen copyright infringement lawyers.

I would sue the author first. She is the one who knowingly used my manuscript. She is the one who has profited most from the theft, although she probably gave a hefty reward to her thief at the publishing company. We don't believe either publishing company was aware of the crime.

Since I live in California, I assumed I should secure a lawyer from here. Should I look at New York lawyers? (Again, it may be too late to sue. It's been over four years.) The theft occurred in New York. Would your husband know?
I'll take your advice and look into where the suit would be filed. That might make a difference. Thanks for your help.

word whisperer

 

The main thing that worries me, based on this thread, is not having my work or ideas stolen, but being sued by a writer with a similar idea for stealing from a work that I've never read (or seen).

One of my short films ends with the words, 'silencio, silencio' over a black screen. This is the exact same ending as Mulholland Drive, a film I had never seen. I was accused of copying it.

 

Mistalus, are you talking to me or to cicerotamar? Just want to be clear. I never responded to one of your threads.

word whisperer

 

Hello, BallerGamer. Yes, that's true. They return your manuscript (or the first three chapters if that is what you sent). They include a rejection letter.

If you are wondering how the other writer got my manuscript, the employee working at the publishing company made a copy of it before it was returned to me.

My suggestion is to copyright every manuscript before you submit it. And I will only go through an agent now. This isn't a guarantee nothing bad will happen, but I won't submit directly to a publisher again. Most won't accept anything except through an agent anyway.

I wish you luck in getting published. Let me know how it's going.

word whisperer

 

Thank you, Selbbin!! That is exactly what happened. The publishing company had nothing to do with this. They didn't make any money from this writer. She published her novel with an entirely different publisher. And she had never published a thing in her life. This was her debut novel. Her own publishing company is innocent, too. They had never seen my manuscript before. And they had never seen anything by this writer, either.

word whisperer

 

Hello, Timewalker. Unfortunately, it is true. I wish it wasn't. I would give anything to not be living with this day after day. (Call me melodramatic if you will. But just imagine if it happened to YOU!)

I can't say the name of the author or the series. Not even the publishing company. I can only give you clues, like saying I write young adult novels, and the series is definitely NOT about Harry Potter. (I love Harry!) The author also isn't Suzanne Collins. I like her, too.

The first novel in the series is the one that follows my manuscript. But there are more similarities in the other books. In the final book, the author is quoting me word-for-word.

word whisperer

 

I have an offer for all you skeptics. If you give me the phone number of a legitimate copyright infringement lawyer, I'll discuss my case with him. I'll even show him my list of similarities. Just make sure he is willing to tell YOU whether or not I have a strong case. He doesn't need to convince me. And he would have to be willing to see me for free. I'm still not rolling in the dough.

Just make certain he has a website I can go to so I know he is legit and not your cousin Greg!

word whisperer

 

What if my cousin Greg is legit?

 

Hi,

Look I'm still not sure I buy this, that what you believe happened happened. But assume that it did. If you want to go the legal route on this you have to start with evidence.

It's not enough to say that there are similarities in the work, and that a former employee of the publisher might have copied the book and given it to a friend who later became a successful author from it. There are a number of things you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt:

1) That the book is in large part derivative of your book. Phrases and a plot are not enough. Large chunks of it have to have been copied almost directly. Otherwise even if you won the judge would then just say well you wrote 2% of the book so you can have 2% of the royalties.

2) In order to show this you will need a copy of your manuscript as submitted to the publisher on that date (2000), with some sort of date marking attached that cannot have been tampered with. Otherwise someone will simply say you altered it.

3) You will then need some sort of signed confession from the former employee to say that he did see your manuscript at work, did copy it, and then did give it to his unpublished author friend. (In short you need to get this person to confess to a crime - and who would be that stupid?)

4) And then fourth, even if you have all of that you then have to show that said author did in fact read it / copy it etc and not just toss it in the fire. I don't think said author whoever he is, is going to admit this, so you need another way of showing that it happened.

This is why the lawyers won't touch it would be my guess. They don't have all of this and have no reasonable expectation of getting it.

Cheers, Greg (and not your cousin copyright lawyer Greg).

 

Your book has copyright protection the moment you write it, so there's little need to register the manuscript with the copyright office. Also, every writer should keep all old drafts/notes, which can come in handy in cases like this.

 

Correct to an extent.

 

WW, you need to look up the copyright infringement cases against Stephen King, JK Rowling, and Stephenie Meyer. I won't re-cap them all for you, but the one against Stephen king, the author sent his book to SK in hopes he'd get an endorsement. Then the author read SK's next book and found over 250 examples of phrasing, characters, plot . . . etc to the book he had sent him. Over 250 examples!

Guess what happened in every case? They lost. In fact, stephen king never even read the guys book. 250 similarities without ever having read the other guys book! More than that, those authors are done. They won't be touched by a publisher.

Also, guess what happens when/if you lose . . you don't just have to pay your lawyer fees, you have to pay THEIR lawyer fees.

Just be informed, that's all.

 

duplicate - sorry

 

I find myself wondering if the "strong case" truly means, "a case that would prove in a trial that the book was stolen" or if perhaps it instead means "a case that might cause a publisher to settle out of court to avoid even a whisper of a scandal."

I can't see a lawyer turning down the first type of case based on a highly successful book and publisher - in that case, the highly successful book and publisher mean a bigger payoff. But I would think that the second type of case might be one to drop if you're facing a prosperous publisher who's prepared to defend itself vigorously.

If you do talk to another lawyer or go back to those previous lawyers, you may want to ask whether they are really reasonably confident that they could _prove in court_ that your book was stolen, as opposed to filing a nuisance suit in the hope of a settlement.