well yes tryinng to end bullying or at least reduce it as much as possible will take more then just punishing bullies. In a sense we completly agree all I wanted to say was that ignoring the problem by saying (It builds character) is an insensative thing to do.
It is insensitive, but it's true. There are many cases to the contrary, I will admit, but there are just as many cases that argue for the point, my own being one of them. Character is defined by our environment and experiences, and everyone at one time or another has encountered a bully. (Heck, I was given a weeks' worth of detention for correcting grammar on a multiple choice history test...). Fundamentally, socially, morally, and historically we know bullying is wrong. Yet history shows it is always there. In one form or another, there is a social structure and someone, or some group is at the bottom, or in the limelight. Until we achieve enlightenment, succumb to living as total hermits with no social interaction, or surrender at powers of conscious thought, which includes the need to survive, there will be repression or labeling in one form or another. It is hardwired into life. Nature has an order from plant structures to ants on up. The only thing completely non-biased: Death. Even diseases will chose between species...
Exzalia, I wouldn't hope to dissuade you against your overall argument, that bullying is bad. It is bad. However, it is my hope that this post will at least somewhat convince you that this pork chop guy does not have valid complaints. Please note, that I stopped the video because I had seen enough. No matter what he says from there on in, the fact is he took the time to complain about the nickname pork chop, and then immediately proceeded to complain about the lack of love in the world. I even gave you a chance to point out if there was anything important I had missed from the video, and you never responded. Ok, now on to why I can't respect this guy. The current state of the world is less than perfect. Do we agree? There are kids going to his school with all sorts of different situations. Some have great homes. Other kid's have parents who have never said "I love you." Others have serious issues- abusive parents, alcoholics, poverty. Do you agree? The first thing this kid tells us is that he ate pork chops all the time and had a loving grandmother (note that so far, I've only stated facts.) The narrator of this story, I'm assuming, has now reached the adult world. So my question to you is, why hasn't he gotten over a simply nickname given to him in a former life? A child is different from an adult. An adult is old enough to drink, drive, go to war, marry, have children. I expect more from an adult than I do a child. While I agree bullying in any form is wrong, I think this guy is shirking off responsibility. How does change happen? Change happens from leaders. Do you agree? Now, who do we expect the leaders to be? Personally, I expect its the people who have had it better in life- you know, the ones who got to eat pork chops, had loving grandmothers, and have the time and money to make you tube videos. These should be the people, the ones with supportive homes, that are able to grow into strong, respectable adults, that either can 1) say, hey, this is wrong, here's how I'm going to change it, or, at the very least,2) take care of themselves. Is he doing choice 1? No, making youtube videos filled with personal gripes is, at best, going to look like whining. It doesn't achieve anything. Therefore, I do not think this guy is acting like a leader. Is he doing choice 2? No, he's whining, and as a result seeking the pity and time of others. That pity and time is better spent on those without the pork chops and loving grandmothers. Someone like has all the means to take care of himself emotionally. It's called maturing. My personal belief is that this guy is asking others to do what he won't, and that's taking responsibility for himself. If he was taking responsibility, he would have never spent the first few minutes of his youtube video crying about being called pork chop. No, instead, he would have said (to himself), I am a different man now, and I can let go of the past. Instead, I'm going to focus entirely on those suffering now. No self pity. I'm not a victim anymore, because I can't afford to be. Others need my help. I'm going to start my youtube video (assuming that's the best I can do) with objective statistics regarding bullying. I'm going to provide viewers with heaps of research, ranging from history, to parenting, to society, to game theory, to psychology, to public education, and I am going to provide an awesome thesis for why we need to cut bullying. That, my friend, is actually "trying" to make a chance. This guy is an emotional leech, not so different from bullies. Please understand, if this guy were a child, I would throw this judgement out the window. I don't expect much from children, but I do expect something from adults. I wish all current and future bullying would cease immediately,but his bullying is over and he needs to get over it for the betterment of all.
Actually, it is possible to change society. Once upon a time in my country (England) it was acceptable to abuse children by sending them up chimneys, into factories and down mines. This situation changed because some good people dared to 'dream' of a better society and they challenged the orthodoxy. They kicked up a fuss, they used their voices and their actions to bring about some kind of justice. At the time, there would've been some pseudo-pragmatists saying 'You're just a bunch of dreamers and idealists, you'll never change the world, this is the way it is, blahdy blah blah.' Thank heavens the 'dreamers' and 'idealists' didn't listen to those stale thinkers. We'd still be sending little girls down coal-mines had the pseudo-pragmatists got their way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YRqLwtZ20Q
Little sidestep there - someone who doesn't listen is being an insensitive jerk but you're not really calling anyone a jerk... First, if you get bored with the post, nobody's going to call you a jerk for not reading it. You'd just look foolish criticizing an opinion you haven't read (so how would you know what to criticize?). And I was not criticizing the person in that video - I was stating that putting forth a boring beginning doesn't make people who get bored jerks for not trudging through to see if there's something interesting. Nor does it make them insensitive for not wanting to listen to some stranger's problems when Lord knows there are enough people they know with problems, and even more people in the world with a lot bigger problems.
Even though we have differing opinions, I am happy to see this discussion remaining respectful. Kudos to all of you.
Shadowwalker, I read your stuff whether you agree with me or not, or if it's so boring my latte' goes cold. You have an insightful take on events, and I want to know about that. But what I've found is that our "younger members" feel someone should roll over and play dead just because they think their opinions come from on high. In today's edition of the comic "Buckets," (02-28-13), the teenage boy complains that he has to memorize salient facts for a school debate. He figures he should win if he "types in all caps and calls the other guy a noob." A few minutes ago I had to inform a young whiner that this country has freedom of speech. You see, I disagreed with him, so he figured the best way to blunt that was to repeal my 1A enumerated rights. He should have typed his complaint in all caps...
In what context is young being defined? 12 -18?, 19 - 25?, anyone under 50? Prime example of how anyone can make just about anyone else look like a bully... Perception is everything, the lens through which we view the world.
What upsets me most about this post is that everything you said is very similar to what the man says towards the end of the video. Do you see now why it makes no sense to criticize something you have only seen 30% of? It's not just him whining, what you want me to write out exactly what he says? Good God just watches it entirely and THEN criticize it. Literally 80% of what you said he was supposed to do he did. I mean how can I argue a point that’s so ill informned.
Little sidestep there - someone who doesn't listen is being an insensitive jerk but you're not really calling anyone a jerk... .....well yes the act of not listening to someone, to me is rude, but I did not single out someone and call him a jerk in fact I said. (Not saying you are a jerk 123456789) Just to make it clear my strong opinions was not meant to hurt anyone. First, if you get bored with the post, nobody's going to call you a jerk for not reading it. You'd just look foolish criticizing an opinion you haven't read (so how would you know what to criticize?). And I was not criticizing the person in that video - I was stating that putting forth a boring beginning doesn't make people who get bored jerks for not trudging through to see if there's something interesting. Nor does it make them insensitive for not wanting to listen to some stranger's problems when Lord knows there are enough people they know with problems, and even more people in the world with a lot bigger problems. And I was not criticizing the person in that video Well then what the blank are we argueing about then? This is getting off the topic anywho.
You have to understand that this is a messy subject because so many people allow emotions to muddy the waters. People have difficulty seperating feeling from facts. I ran into this just yesterday when I tried to explain to a friend that homosexuality was a genetic defect. His 'feelings' on the matter molded what he interpreted. He couldn't seperate his feelings from the facts. Eventually he understood, but his feelings betrayed him. My father told me that feelings make a good caboose, but a horrible engine. ~ J. J.
(This response was in re: to Darkkin's question on "age.") My militia has a drone circling their houses armed with facial recognition software. Actually, I believe a person's identity and prejudicces bleed through their prose. When I hear that strident rasp in a debate I think "youth" even if the guy is 50 years old. But let's get serious. Shadowwalker is respected member of this forum. I disagree with her (and she with me) perhaps 75% of the time. That doesn't mean I will denigrate her opinion in any way. Discussing 'age' as an attribute to this debate is just the kind of thing I'm discussing. They cannot blunt the assertion, so they try to convolute the debate with worthless side issues. If you argue like a kid don't be suprised to be misindentified as one.
You know what's funny? In my head all of you are teenagers or around my age. The idea that some of you are older then 25 never even accured to me. Mind=blown
Actually, that's not a fact. It's your feeling. Homosexuality is a fact of life. You feel that it is a defect. Other people could say: homosexuality plays an important role. It helps the human race keep its population down. Therefore, homosexuality is a healthy part of planetary homeostasis. Who's right? Others could say that your opinion on it being a 'defect' is coloured with cultural prejudice and is based on an irrational fear. Therefore you are being emotive and not factual.
Oh, I still think like a kid sometimes. In my head I'm about 19 years old. Boomers were taught we were always young. In fact, if I dyed my hair back to its original color you'd never guess my true age. But then, I want to enjoy life. Why should I park my bikes due to "a number"? Why should anyone? But when it comes to things like a polite demeanor in a debate, be an adult. The only people I ream out are mouthy brats.
Please don't misunderstand me. I don't want to derail this thread. I hold no negative views on homosexuals at all, but the qualification for any trait to have evolved is for it to correlate positively with reproductive success, or, more precisely, with success in projecting genes relevant to that trait into the future. By definition of a defect, this has to be true in regards to homosexuality. But this also applies to so many other traits that could be seen as negative toward reproductive success, not just homosexuality. But as I said, you bring your feelings into it like I am insulting someone, which I am not. Thinking beyond your feelings is difficult for people, I understand. ~ J. J.
JJ, that's a fallacious argument. Using your logic, we could say that the development of the neocortex is also a 'defect'. People could say: Since humans depend on enough resources in order to survive and therefore procreate, and since overpopulation is detrimental to the preservation of resources and in turn detrimental to survival, homosexuality plays an important function in the evolution of humans. I'm arguing from logic, not feeling. EDIT: you base your argument on the assumption that procreation is the only factor in the survival of a species, when in fact a lack of procreation (in certain situations) is just as beneficial to survival. I say your reasoning is false.
This is far from an established scientific fact. Although research has indicated that there may be a genetic component to homosexuality, no particular gene has been determined to influence it. There are also biological components that are not genetic. And there has certainly been no scientific conclusion that any genetic component to homosexuality would be categorized as a "defect," any more than green eyes or blonde hair would be considered a "defect." In addition, there are findings that homosexuality is consistent with evolutionary theory.
Look, Solar, I understand you are looking for facts to fit your feelings, but they are not there. You say 'people could say', but scientists don't say. You are creating unfounded 'examples' with little basis in science. Sure, you can say that homosexuality doesn't hurt the furtherance of our species because we evolved cognition, but that's all you can say. You can't claim to know the positive evolutionary reasons it evolved unless you've written a groundbreaking scientific thesis I'm not aware of. I mean if you want to have an academic discussion involving inclusive fitness theory and group selection vs. kin selection, or sex-linked traits regarding the X-chromosone, I would be happy to do that with you privately. I have two sisters that are mentally disabled. Someone could tell me they are defective, and although it may be seen as insulting by some, it also a scientific truth. This is what I was saying in regards to feelings, pride and truth. ~ J. J.
See: Male Homosexuality Study: Gay Men Have Evolutionary Benefit For Their Families, New Research Suggests http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/12/why-are-there-gay-men_n_1590501.html
