Music in fiction.

It won't necessarily help. You have no idea what will change after you write the book. Jane Eyre is dated by the way Jane has to travel by horse-drawn carriage; there's no way that Charlotte Brontë could have anticipated the horseless carriage. The Jeeves and Wooster stories are dated by the popularity of black-face minstrel shows. There's no way P G Woodhouse could have anticipated the 20th century shifts in racial sensitivity. A book published in early 2001 might end up being dated by a reference to New York's Twin Towers; there's no way the writer could have anticipated the events of 9/11. As far as I can see the writer simply needs to accept that readers will be able to determine the time in which a novel is set, and that will form part of their relationship with the story. Even invented worlds will end up standing in an identifiable relationship to a real-world time period, although it will be more subtle.

 

The rules that allow short passages to be used without permission are called Fair Use, but they only apply to academic writing or reviews and the like. Fair Use does not apply to inclusion in fiction or in any writing published for profit.

You can include titles. Titles are not copyrighted. But any content at all can only be included with written permission from the copyright owner. If there are any conditions attached to the permission, such as payments, those conditions must be met as well, or the permission is void.

This is true, but definitely outside the scope of this discussion.

The issue isn't how to make a story timeless, but how not to lock it down to a narrower time range by the use of passing musical fads.

Every story has a time range that it could fall into, and will have elements that date it to some degree. Even stories of the future will be contaminated by the assumptions of the time when it is written. But that is another thread.

 

"Any content at all" can be problematic, of course. When I was on vacation in Canada, and said "I need a dollar" (to get a shopping cart), was I quoting Aloe Blacc? Ok, that's a title, but you see the issue. I suppose that's why lawyers get to be so rich.

 

if the phrase is a common one that only happens to have also been used in a song, and it's just used as normal narrative or in dialog, then it's not a legal issue... but if it's being used in writing [not speaking] and it's clear that it is specifically referring to the song, then it is one...

 

There's this scene in my story where the main character witnesses a large group of people dancing to some primitive music (drums, flutes). I've got the description for the dancing down, but describing music is something I'm struggling with. Now that I think about it though, whenever I do read a description of music in a book I'm reading, I don't really 'get it'. I mean an author could describe how someone looks like and a picture could form in my mind, but the same doesn't happen when it comes to music.

Does anyone else have this kind of problem? How does everyone else handle music in their works?

Thanks.

 

You could describe how the music makes the characters feel. Like if the main character were to look around at the other people, what expression would be on their faces? Describe the mood of the music, whether it's sad, happy, gentle, chilling, calming, exciting etc. You could use metaphors like 'the sound of the flute floated through the air like so many dandelion seeds on a summer breeze'. You could use a physical quality like feeling the vibration of the drum through the soles of the character's feet.

 

in addition to the good advice given above, i'd suggest googling for music reviews... that will show you how different kinds of music and the sounds of various instruments can be described...

 

I think we can all agree how effective this works in film (for the simple reason we hear it) but how about in fiction. Can it work on any level?

For the last couple of days I've been writing a section of my novel set at an open-air music festival. Because the festival is a celebration of 50s rock'n'roll, I've had a youtube playlist of skiffle, rockabilly / hillbilly music playing, and it's really helped me paint the scenes.

My worry, though, is that this just won't come across to a reader, unless by some huge coincidence they just happen to be listening to similar music at the time.

I know that as writers we should never try and force, or even expect, a reader to share the same thoughts and feelings we have when writing a piece, but it would be nice to think we can summon a stimulating experience, at least, and I wonder how much the music here plays a part in my own enjoyment of the scene, given, as I say, I was listening to the same stuff on youtube as I wrote it.

 

That's a tough one. I suppose you could have the characters remark on the music, but that kind of thing can, and usually does, seem forced and artificial. Given the ubiquity of tablets and phones being used to read, it seems like we should have developed a genre of fiction-with-sound-effects by now, though timing things to accommodate different reading speeds would be an issue.

 

I think the problem with incorporating music with the book as you read it would be the right to use aspect. Just like you wouldn't want someone using your story without compensation to you the music artists would want their fair share. Now maybe there is an angle if the reader has their own legal playlist on the device that a song could be played if it matched your list. One of the legal eagles like Steerpike will probably give us some good information on this.

It seems that I have read many stories where the music being heard in the background is mentioned as part of the setting. I would not expect the characters to mention it unless it was something special to the character or might be said to break the ice with someone they just met, etc. However to get that "feeling" that music brings just mentioning it probably doesn't do the trick. It is almost magical when a movie plays music that really matches the feeling of the scene but that only seems to happen part of the time which I would suspect is simply because it is the director's choice (or whomever makes that decision) and their idea of what music would seem best simply doesn't match my own.

 

But surely it works because you're actually hearing it??

Also, can I put the idea of having some kind of interactive music system in place to bed, right here and now? This is not what I'm suggesting.

Perhaps the one thing I dislike when it comes to using music in writing, is when the author shares a verse or two with us. I always skip this because it doesn't really work even if you know the song, and if you don't know the song, then it's just like reading random poetry.

However, without wanting to get all defensive, I'm not really sure how telling the reader a skiffle band were playing on stage, at a 50s rock'n'roll' festival, sounds forced and/or artificial..

 

I have a little background on this as one of my WIPs has a modern rock superstar as one of the MCs, so I have a lot of musical references.

According to my publisher, you can legally use band names and/or song titles without getting into copyright problems, just not actual lyrics. So it's okay for me to write: "Jayden started playing one of the first songs he'd every learned on the guitar; Good Riddance by Green Day." But if I were to have Jayden pick up his guitar and start singing, "Another turning point, a fork stuck in the road..." then I'm getting into copyright infringement.

 

I never read lyrics in books. I never know the tune and I'm not interested in just lyrics. Plus, I'm just not interested in singing when I just want to read, but I'm also not a music fan. I find it's enough when the author just says "gentle music floated across the dance floor" or something to that extent. I can better picture music I made up in my head than music the author made up or bands they mentioned that I don't know. If I read your book and you mentioned a 50's rock band I didn't know, I'd probably just picture the Beach Boys or some random heavy musical instruments (I have no idea what 50's rock music was like) I've heard on TV. It'd be fine either way.

 

Good topic. To echo Earp, this is certainly a hard one. I get what you're talking about, and I absolutely have music that I listen to for some of my scenes.

I think we just have to let it go. You probably can't force a reader to feel what you're feeling. Make the scene what you can and then leave it to the reader.

 

You could always simply describe it, or flat out state what kind of music is playing. With a little imagination you can figure it out.
You could even have the lyrics being sung littering throughout the whole scene if you want. All you have to do is think outside the proverbial box.
Be as descriptive as you want with it, if you think it will help in some fashion. It is only a little harder than writing say the clack of a door latch,
or the sharp clicking of heels on a tiled surface.

As for the feels part, have the character react to a particular song or lyric in some way.
Show us how he feels by his expression, body language, etc. Bit of an alternative to
having him outright blurt how it makes him feel emotionally about the music.

Now think it out and play around with it for a bit, and make us proud. You got this!
Visualize then actualize, then write it on the page.

Good luck, and all the best. Write it like a Boss!

 

I disagree. Music is it's own art form. I think it would be unwise to try to replicate the exact feelings a song can achieve through literature, because they're two vastly different mediums. I say this as a reader who has almost never been impressed when lyrics and music are incorporated into a scene.

An exception to this would be the fictional song "Little Carmen" from Lolita (you guessed it). Also Tombadil's song from Fellowship of the ring, and the poems from Satyricon. But these are all fictional songs by very accomplished writers.

If you include a full or nearly full song that is performed by someone else in real life, I'm almost definitely going to think you're really lame.

 

@123456789 Well aren't you just a peach of picky.

Fictional song good, real song bad?!

Personally I haven't really read anything that even hints at music. While yes they are two different mediums, does not mean that you cannot incorporate one into the other.
I suppose the person writing about a character who paints is just as wrong? Mixing two different mediums in a story, stop the presses. Who would ever dream of such things?!


Well you sir are quite perplexing in your ways. Most perplexing indeed...

 

I don't mean writing about music, I mean using words to evoke the feelings that music evokes.

 

I feel only slightly a fool. Perhaps you should have lead with that.
Being impressed with lyrics, and said eliciting an emotional response
are just a tad off base from each other. That is where my confusion
in your oddly worded post, threw me off.

My apologies.

 

From my original post- "I think it would be unwise to try to replicate the exact feelings a song can achieve through literature,"

 

Thanks everyone.

For what it's worth I certainly agree with 123... regrading lyrics. Here's my reasoning in an earlier post:

I wasn't so much struggling with this scene or looking for advice, but I did wonder if there's a possibility I might have been enjoying writing it more than someone would reading it, because A, I'm familiar with the music. And B, I was listening to it at the time.

Again, like 1234... says, I just need to write it to the best of my ability and let the reader picture it as they please.

 

One of my novels is essentially about music--the lead characters play music and listen to music constantly, as that's the central theme of the story--so my case may be a little different, but I definitely understand the desire to reflect the music of the scene in the description of it. I guess it depends on how integrated the music is to the scene--is it just background noise, or do the characters actually react to it (whether internally or externally)?

While you don't want to write a concert review (necessarily), you may benefit by reading critical reviews of concerts or albums to get a sense of how people describe music and sounds in words, where you can't actually hear it yourself. The narration can potentially reflect some of those descriptors, and if the characters are reacting to the music, they can add their own as well.

You can also just state what song is playing and leave it as an Easter egg for readers who are familiar with it.

 

Thank you @xanadu - there's no concern with authenticity here. I'm not claiming to be a 50s rock and roll historian or anything, but I've been part of the stage lighting crew at an annual, open air festival of this type for many a year now, so I know what goes on there and how the music sounds.

 

This is a topic I meant to bring up a while back, but I ended up forgetting... that is until I got this email from another writing newsletter that I had subscribed to some time ago.

"Music is fantastic for writers, too. It makes your stories feel richer and helps you, the writer, to create the mood effectively. When you have the perfect music going for your story, you're creating atmosphere for you and your future readers."

This is very interesting to me, considering at the time I came up with the idea for my last few serious stories, I was deeply inspired by some music of some sort. It's as if it enhances certain feelings, emotions and the level of immersion generated by my imagination. I am quite curious to know if this applies to you personally.

My current novel, "Abroad", was inspired largely by, yes, you guessed it... Piano Man by Billy Joel (see my signature). Why Piano Man? Well, it was my Romanian friend that first introduced me to it, and I instantly found it to be addictive. Hence I could not go through an entire day without listening to it, or singing it to myself. Some time back in November, I was doing a google image search for a very random image topic, and I found an image of a circus contortionist from Spain in Germany back in 1966 doing a handstand and smoking a cigarette with her foot (see avatar). Since the image of her was quite captivating at the time and because the instrumentals of the song reminded me of a circus, it was very soon after that I found myself with a burning desire to write this idea for a novel.

My last few stories started with a captivating image of some sort that was enhanced by a particular song or genre of music that I was deeply enthralled by. Although this time, enthralled by is a bit of an understatement. This time around, I'd be willing to say "enamoured of". For me, all it takes is the right music stuck in my head and a simple image of a person, place or thing (usually a person) that fascinates me, and I have a lengthy story based on that alone.

When I work on my novel, I like to listen to variations of Piano Man to keep the atmosphere going. Although I know I'm getting a bit ahead of myself by doing this, I've already thought of several scenarios and ideas for my sequel's content. This one is inspired by a completely different song altogether, as the story line and overall outcome is quite different.

So for me, it's quite important to find some music that sets the tone, the atmosphere and the pace of my story. How about you? Do you feel the same way or have similar inspirations?

Shogun.

 

I've written entire novels that were inspired by a single song, for sure, but I don't really listen to the song as I'm writing--I just take the inspiration and run with it.

The clearest connection I can think of is between 38 Years Old by the Tragically Hip and Mark of Cain, by, well, me. The song is about a guy who goes to jail for killing the guys who raped his sister, but mostly it's the mood of it, the utter hopelessness of the life and the impact it had on everyone left behind that really caught my attention. So Mark of Cain was about a guy getting out of jail (for a crime he deserved to be punished for) and trying to re-assimilate, but also on the impact the crime had on people left behind. And other stuff (it is a romance novel!).

I've included ex-con characters in several other books as well, all inspired by that one song. The prison-industrial-complex, the injustices and ineffectiveness of our penal system, the impact it has on not only those incarcerated but also on the their families, their victims, etc... all good stuff for fiction!

Lots of Springsteen songs have given me ideas, too.