Thank you, JLT - I was in Italy last year, and I had no idea about that. (I didn't even think of the word "paisano"). Any idea why this difference? OTOH, there are two words for "police" in Italy: "polizia" (self-explanatory) and "carabinieri" (named after a carbine, orig. a 19th-century rifle with a short barrel). Either is acceptable, as far as I know.
Here in the US it's got the southern connotation, but most of us are 4 or 5 generations removed from the old country. The regionalisms are pretty dead in Italian American culture. Different story from my parents' generation, where the Sicilians and southerners were looked down upon within their own community. And that was on top of the WASPs looking down on all things Italian. Pretty stupid, but that's tribalism for you.
I'm sorry, but this mentality drives me crazy. I don't understand either tribalism or patriotism. It's a round world last time I checked. :-\ The problem starts when you start thinking of people as things. Sure, some people would say it's more complicated than that. It's not. "More complicated than that" is what people say when they're afraid they won't like the answer. And yes, there are worse crimes. But they start with thinking about people as things. (I'm sure I'm paraphrasing Terry Pratchett's Carpe Jugulum, but that's how I always remember it)...
Well, it's the general organizing principle for all societies and human interactions, so I don't think there's much to understand or not understand. You're not getting rid of tribalism any more than you can get rid of death and taxes, so I'd have a beer and call it a day.
Consider the evolutionary path of humans. We wondered in small bands that we depended upon for survival. There is a reason that many languages have the same word for stranger and enemy.
Sure (for instance, xenos in Greek). But then, not every stranger is necessarily an enemy. The Romans knew that, and that's how they built the Italian peninsula: by assimilating their enemies instead of exterminating them. At the risk of digressing, the word xenos (as Michael Flanders used to remark) is the Greek word for 'stranger' or 'guest'; as in xenophobia -- the fear and hatred of guests!
My point is that humans have had ten s of thousands of years to develop this behavior. A couple thousand years isn't enough to change a behavior that ingrained.
"A novel is not an allegory... It is the sensual experience of another world. If you don't enter that world, hold your breath with the characters and become involved in their destiny, you won't be able to empathize, and empathy is at the heart of the novel." Azar Nafisi, from Reading Lolita in Tehran.
"You have a chip on your tooth, your Adam's apple sticks out too far and you talk too slow." (Film executive rejecting Clint Eastwood in 1959)
Mario Puzo made the same reference in The Godfather, when he described a northern Italian landlord despising the southern Italians and Sicilians who were his tenants in New York. That was the sort of storytelling nuance that made the book so compelling as a description of Italian immigrant life in New York in the last century. My own family was from Bari, along the Adriatic coast in the southern part of Italy. They were considered as "southern Italian" as well, and were looked down by northern Italians and other white people. A lot of it was a true difference in culture. My father didn't learn English until he entered grammar school. He thought his native language was Italian until he got to college, where he found that if you took the final exam in a foreign language and passed it, you would get credit for the course even if you hadn't taken it. So he took the final for Italian... and flunked. It was then that he realized that his family had been speaking "Barisi" and not Italian. The two languages were almost as different as English and Frisian Dutch. So he learned classical Italian, which was based on the dialect of central Italy (notably Rome and Florence) and passed the test.
Good question. I think it's kind of like the term "redneck." Rural Southerners don't have a problem with using it in self-reference, and are actually kind of proud about it. But if a northerner uses that term to describe them, it's an insult. Similarly, some African Americans still use the term "nigger" when referring to others of their culture (although that seems to be fading out now), but when a white person uses the term, it's always taken as derogatory.
Very interesting! I studied Roman history (the kingdom, republic and empire) for many years, but didn't know much else about Italy (except for some of the major composers, like Verdi/ Rossini etc. -- and obviously the food!) until after I visited Italy. I'm currently reading a short history of Italy, and have just finished reading about the aftermath of the Risorgimento. For a long time before (and after) the Risorgimento, Italy had been divided into separate regions, so it's no wonder that different dialects developed out of that. Also, the south of Italy was less well educated, much poorer, more agrarian, and had less infrastructure (e.g. roads, bridges, factories) than the north. I'm not saying that to cast aspersions: the south of Italy (under Austrian rule, I think?) had been neglected for many centuries before the Risorgimento. So, by the time of Italy's unification in 1861 (under Garibaldi and Vittorio Emmanuele), Italy faced a dilemma: how could Italians from different regions communicate with each other, when they had no common language? "Classical" Italian, from what I understand, was created in the decades after unification -- and it was based on the Florentine dialect, which is why the test your father passed was based on that dialect. *thumbs up* I apologise if this all sounds familiar! *blush* It's only that I never knew about this, and I find history fascinating.
"A moment of patience in a moment of anger saves a thousand moments of regret." Anonymous (at least as far as I know),
I thought maybe I should tatoo it on my forehead so that I see it in the mirror every morning, then realized I'd have to tatoo it backwards to be able to read it and that would look weird, so I simply put it above my bathroom mirror.
"Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?" -- H. M. Warner, head of Warner Brothers, 1927, on the talking motion picture. "Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is a ridiculous fiction." -- Pierre Pachet, professor of physiology at Toulouse, 1872. "It will be years - not in my time - before a woman will become prime minister." -- Margaret Thatcher, 26 October 1969. (Who said these have to be inspirational?)
“It’s 19 minutes after the hour, and now it’s time for our daily feature, The Astrological Hour. A quick reminder: these reports are not intended to foster belief in astrology, but merely to support people who cannot take responsibility for their own lives.” --- The Kentucky Fried Movie, 1977 Plus you need a shit ton of patience to sit through a tattooing.
Ah well, if we're doing Prime Ministers, allow me to introduce the most surprisingly quotable example, the Conservative David Cameron: On The UK Independence Party: "Bunch of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists." On social media: "Too many Tweets makes a twat." On his love of intrusive state interference: "For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone." On a speech by his successor and uni 'friend', Boris Johnson: "I shat at the TV." On female representation in Parliament: "Calm down, dear." On his name, which he felt the need to clarify: "Lots of people call me Dave, my mum calls me David, my wife calls me Dave." On roadside bombs: "Every time I visit Iraq or Afghanistan I am blown away." And finally, on being a real sweety: "When people's love is divided by law, it is the law that needs to change."
Is that physically possible? Actually hitting a standard, vertically positioned TV from an unassisted, un-elevated, no cheating, feasible pooping position? Hold my beer while I experiment.
I dont' know if it still exists or if I'd want to see it again, but I once saw a video I had to dub "turdsquirter." This dude fell forward onto a bed I think, and shot one across the room. No idea if accuracy is possible though.
Yeah, plenty of those types of videos out there. I tell you what, if anyone wants to participate, let's say $100 to the first one to pull off the feat. No cheating allowed. The TV must be at standard elevation, whether atop a regular entertainment center (my recommendation) or mounted on the wall, but it can't be like only two feet above the wall. The human can assume any position they like, but they must be at least 4 feet from the TV, have both feet on the floor (or both hands in a handstand position, $200), can use any sort of consumable adjuncts they like, but only solid excretion is allowed. It has to strike the TV, bounce, and remain somewhat intact upon landing. Pressured liquidity in that department would be too easy and lead to immediate disqualification. (I realize this might sound a bit un-modly, but I've had one of those days that remind me that propriety and appropriate public discourse are very overrated)
No apologies necessary, Mogador. Clearly David's metaphor was taken too bloody literally. Now, to lift this thread's tone a tad ... "We are willing to return the manuscript." Publisher rejecting Jane Austen's novel Northanger Abbey. "The singer will have to go, the BBC won't like him." The Rolling Stones' first manager, Eric Easton, to his partner after watching Mick Jagger perform. "I give the Rolling Stones about another two years." Mick Jagger in 1964. "You have a chip on your tooth, your Adam's apple sticks out too far and you talk too slow." Film executive rejecting Clint Eastwood in 1969.
"You gotta live life." Said laconically by my son who just spent five days in the mountains looking for three lost equines even though he got a fishhook in his eye during a fly fishing accident.
