1. RaitR_Grl

    RaitR_Grl Member

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    Occam's Razor...

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by RaitR_Grl, Jan 23, 2024.

    Okay, I'll keep the first part simple. (After some quick Google/wiki research), I learned that Occam's razor is the philosophical principle that the simplest possible solution to a problem is most likely the correct one.

    Now for part 2... This is where things may get a bit dicey.

    Think about every story you've read. If things come easy for the MC what would be the point?

    I plan on having my own MC misinterpret signs and question herself at every turn. Basically I want my story to defy Occam's Razor... Epically. But how?

    I already have a bunch of scenes drafted where my MC tries to interpret cryptic advice she got, second-guesses herself, and questions her entire fate.

    I could use A LOT of help with this angle. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
     
  2. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Not sure how the term would apply here. Is it a story about Occam's Razor or part of the central theme, or just a philosophical lens you (or your MC) are using to figure out the story?

    But that aside, Occam's Razor sort of implies that there are conflicting hypotheses at work... that a bunch of problem solving and potential solutions have been kicked around before deciding on which is the simplest and most likely. So it's not likely the answer came quickly or easily or anything. More like there was a lot of shit happening before somebody went, "Duh!"

    Not sure if any of that helps.
     
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  3. Hammer

    Hammer Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Occam's razor is more of an engineering "philosophy" than a plotting device for novels...
     
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  4. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Sounds like a very interesting angle to take. I'd be interested in hearing about how you're going to draw her character. Is she someone who takes simple things and makes them more complicated than they are? Does she over-analyze? And she probably has a vivid imagination that takes her all over the place? She probably asks "what if?" a lot. How do you picture her?

    Reminds me of an interesting word: confusticate - which is a cross between confuse and complicate.
     
  5. RaitR_Grl

    RaitR_Grl Member

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    No, it's not about OR. It's more like... Obviously I don't want to make things TOO simple for my MC, but I also don't want to make it so the answers she finds turn out to be the simplest logical solutions.

    Does that make sense?
     
  6. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Tough to tell without some context. What kind of problem is it? You say you want to defy Occam's Razor "epically," which would seem to run counter to simple explanations. I guess maybe I'd ask how important that goal really is? I don't see how that could improve the plot unless it was an inherent element of what makes it compelling in the first place.
     
  7. Earp

    Earp Contributor Contributor

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    I also think that it's only meaningful when comparing a number (could be two) of possible explanations and using Occam's Razor to select the simplest one.
     
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  8. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I'm not sure if I'm understanding this right, but a plot usually has a lot of complications. That's usually most of the second act. The protag does a lot of things wrong along the way, because they're going after what they want rather than what they need. And it often takes a lot before they get the wind knocked out of them hard enough to realize they've been doing it wrong, and should instead go for what they really need.
     
  9. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    Occam's Razor is more something that would come up in a mystery, or a character figuring out a problem in the course of a story. The MC in most stories has one or more false beliefs that cause them problems. Their plans to resolve a problem Go pear-shaped regularly. A typical pattern you will see in stories, is the first two attempts to solve the problems fail, and they finally succeed on the third attempt.
     
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  10. Not the Territory

    Not the Territory Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    The razor isn't about reaching a solution to a problem, it's about helping evaluate (competing) hypotheses. It's not 'what should I do next' it's 'what do I think is more likely to align with reality.' That can of course lead into what to do next, but I think the distinction is important.

    If a story were to epically defy the concept of Occam's Razor, astoundingly complex and contrived scenarios would ultimately have more supporting evidence than the more likely simple ones. That's how a lot of jokes are set up in all kinds of media, because it can quickly become absurd.

    Based on your post, it just sounds like you simply want a very uncertain character, and that's fine. It's one of the many forms of man vs self. One way to help keep it compelling is to hand her genuinely tough/opaque situations. The reader will be more invested if they're not sure what they would do in her place either.
     
  11. Rath Darkblade

    Rath Darkblade Active Member

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    Not the Territory is right.

    Occam's (or Ockham's) razor) is a principle from philosophy. It goes something like this: suppose an event has two possible explanations. The explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation. (It's named after the 14th–century friar, William of Ockham, who said that if you have two competing ideas to explain the same phenomenon, you should prefer the simpler one).

    Here's a simple example: let's say you're visiting a farm, and you hear rapid hoofbeats approaching. Who can it be? The farm has many animals, but it could be a horse, or a donkey, or a cow. Using Occam's Razor, you would probably conclude that a horse is on the way, since neither cows nor donkeys usually run or trot. ;)

    Another example: suppose you're visiting the Middle Ages, and you arrive at a burned-out village. There are fires and corpses everywhere, but no living people. What do you conclude?

    a. It's the wrath of god (whichever god it may be)
    b. It could be a group of bandits, and you should get out of here at once
    c. There might be a war on -- and again, you should get out of here at once ;)

    Of all these hypotheses, (a) is very unlikely. (b) is possible. (c) is the most probable. RUN!! :eek: ;)
    ==================
    Coming back to your post, it seems that you want a character to defy Occam's Razor. I have to ask: what would be the point? Most characters who do are either superheroes, wizards, or deities. They have the power to do supernormal things. If your character is an ordinary mortal, I wouldn't expect him to be able to do something like fly or lift a car, etc., without a very good explanation. ;)

    If you simply want your character to face tough situations, that's easier to do. Set up a situation where a character has two or three choices, the time is ticking, and he/she needs to decide quickly. For instance, a simple one:

    Suppose your character is a cook who sells seafood and fish pies. The king has declared that your cook's pies are the best in town, and ordered a pie for lunch.

    Obviously, your cook must get to the palace before lunch. But how? The city is crowded, there are people and carts everywhere. What's the best way to get there?

    Let's throw in an extra complication. A fish-seller across town is jealous, and paid some mercenaries to stop your cook. They are chasing him down! Your cook is running away and comes to a T-intersection. On the right, he can see a bunch of people shopping in the market. It is crowded. On the left, there is nobody - but there is a loud, barking dog in someone's yard. Where should your cook go?

    Occam's Razor says that going left is the wrong decision. The mercenaries are hot on your cook's trail! If the dog doesn't get him first, they will see him running through the yard. It may be best to go to the market, instead, where he can lose them. ;)

    See how simple it is? :) Now it's up to you. Good luck!
     
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  12. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer Contest Winner 2023

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    Though it might come in handy for detective stories. I.e., "the butler did it" vs. "it was done by puce-winged space aliens from Pluto who hitchhiked here when the Apollo 11 capsule returned to earth in 1969."
     
  13. Rath Darkblade

    Rath Darkblade Active Member

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    Or, "It was done by this particular fellow..."

    [​IMG]

    (If you know, you know). ;)
     
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  14. GrahamLewis

    GrahamLewis Seeking the bigger self Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Occam's Razor has to do with philosophy and logic. Life rests on neither, so the concept would be irrelevant to plots (and stories in general.) IMHO.
     
  15. Rath Darkblade

    Rath Darkblade Active Member

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    Wait, wait, wait ... life doesn't involve logic?!? *gasp* Oh noes! The sky is falling!

    (Of course I'm being facetious) ;)
     
  16. GrahamLewis

    GrahamLewis Seeking the bigger self Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    I knew you would say that. It's the only logical response.
     
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