Autism & my MC

So,
I am debating an Autistic MC. I am writing a mystery thriller and the MC will eventually be a detective, so obviously being on the spectrum would not be the main focus of the plot, nor would it be a main focus of the character.

For context, I was diagnosed as an adult with ASD but obviously dealt with it my whole life. I do worry about too much self inclusion when it comes to adding characteristics about ASD from myself to my MC. However, I'd want to use my own experiences in order to ensure realness. I know that Autism is pretty individual to those who deal with it. I obviously plan on researching while I write and including aspects I may not realize about myself, as well as other aspects to differentiate her from myself physically. (For instance I need a cane and she will not.)

I lean towards having an Autistic MC for many reasons and a big one is inclusion. There may be more now but growing up there really weren't a lot of Autistic MCs especially not ones that are openly Autistic. I've seen plenty of them with personalities that I could easily assume are on the spectrum but I didn't read or watch much that I can identify with that has an openly Autistic MC.

On the note of inclusion as well, there have always been far less female representation of autism in general. Female autistic characters always seem to be Caricatures due to either ineptitudes or ignorance like Music by Sia. So I've wanted to base her behavior on my own, to ensure that is avoided as well as any accusations of that. If that makes sense.

I think that's why, I personally prefer to consume content about autism created by individuals with autism or at the least in conjunction with those individuals. So, in a way, I almost feel I should include this particular aspect in my MC since I'm in this particular position that many aren't.

I also want to see more content where being autistic isn't the entirety of their character. It's just part of them, much like in real life, I'm just myself and being on the spectrum is just an aspect of me. I'd like to see more work that shows that.

However, I have doubts though, because I know that in my genre in particular there are a few particularly notable MCs that have personalities which can be commonly associated with ASD. Like Monk. Or more... on the less mentally structured side like some iterations of Sherlock Homes. Even Poirot could be seen as someone who had behaviors that could be seen as a bit similar. I don't want it to be seen as if I'm trying to diagnose all in the genre, just saying others definitely have been noted to act "their own way." I don't want it to seem like the book is saying all those like that were autistic, nor do I want it to say that autism is just being "smart and kind of weird." If that makes sense. I know in my own life many have assumed that I'm "not really autistic that's just how people are when they're really smart, smart people are always a little weird." I want the book to validate her autism if I include it, while simultaneously not making it her sole personality trait. A careful balance in any autistic's actual life I'm sure many reading are familiar heh. So I'm sure that a lot of my worries are internalized issues with my self that I'm dealing with.

I also want to ensure that my MC is just an example of how ASD effects her, and also show that being a spectrum is different in everyone. She will have a few characters she finds friendship in and will be able to verbally explain this to if I given that opportunity so I can easily make this as vague or as blunt as I wish. I just am a worrier, and I worry about offending people in general.

Another factor of concern, if I'm being totally honest, is marketing. As much as I genuinely want to write a book that other Autistics can enjoy and be able to find an Autistic MC within, I have concerns that it may turn away neurotypical readers. I'm also scared it could fetishize autistic characters.

I guess the very long and not at all short of it is that I'd like to make my MC autistic because I'd like to see more Autistic MCs & I'm autistic thus I think that may put me in a position to write an authentic ASD MC, however I worry about appropriateness, self inclusion & competitiveness/marketing factors. So I'd really love some honest, but if possible, gentle opinions.
Thank you in advanced for any answers
Sorry for the babbling.

 

Well like I said, my main intention, if included is that, it's a feature not a focus. I myself am an individual with autism. It's an aspect of my life, it isn't my life in it's entirety. My MC is in a dangerous situation where time is limited so having the condition wouldn't be the main focus of everyone.
However, while discussing it with other Autistic writers I find it doubtful that I'd write a MC without them having behaviors that are innately ASD, especially considering that it's my first major work and "you write what you know".
I can't help but honestly feel it's a bit harsh to say that it could be less entertaining to read an autistic character though. I can't see a reason why that would be the case.

Maybe I'm not understanding your comment but I don't understand what you mean by saying "emphasize the autistic aspects in a way that doesn't bolster the entertainment factor." I'm not sure what specific autistic aspects would be not entertaining? Can you elaborate on that?
I'm confused, do you mean that I should hide certain parts of being autistic and only show the "entertaining parts" because I can't do that. I can't gloss over it and make a commercialized version of it again. If I write the character autistic, she would have to be authentically so, that's why I don't like them written by neurotypical people because they're not authentic. You can be authentic and entertaining without being preachy or feeling like a college lecture, I think at least. Monk was authentically OCD and entertaining. He's a great example of showing the good and the bad but still being fun. Please don't assume that.

Thank you for your input.

 

I think it may be that I simply didn't understand your comments. Like I've said, it won't be the main focus, I don't really know how else to put that. I appreciate your input but I think that we may be at a moot point here. I understand you're saying intent is important but I also think that I just disagree with your opinion when it comes to some things. And that's totally okay in my opinion. Everyone is allowed to think and feel however they want, I just don't think it will help anyone to go back and forth debating every little detail trying to convince one another and getting all worked up. We're both entitled to think as we please and I'm just hopeful to hear from others as well to get a town hall style approach, in order to hear many different opinions. Ones like mine and ones different than mine. Thank you for starting me out.

 

From what you've said so far, you want to write an ASD character but not focus on this aspect of your MC's personality in the story's conflict. The story will focus on something else, like a world catastrophe or something like that.

Have you worked on this story yet? Do you know what kind of story you want to write? You've said a lot on what kind of MC you want to write but nothing on the story. This matters because when you start to examine the story itself and your ASD MC, you might realise that a lot more is affected than you think.

It would be great to hear more about that.

I've written a lot of short stories for the contests here. This doesn't really give me a super big "audience" but I have been able to measure some reactions to certain things.

The good news is that characters with autistic traits don't always go sour with neurotypical audiences. I've written an autistic witch and the feedback I got for that story really praised her as a character.

The bad news is that it doesn't always go well either. People with ASD will make different decision than neurotypical people. As such, the decisions they make in the story don't always make sense to neurotypical people because there is too much of a gap in ways of thought and perception plus a few other things.

You have to bare in mind that I've never written the word "autism" in my story. I always keep things implicit.

I'm still very much navigating this topic. As things stand right now, the stories I've written that are best received are genre ones. But some of these genre stories do include characters with autistic traits!

My thought right now is this: Why do I explicitly have to mention that a character has ASD? People with ASD will be able to relate and sympathesize to that character naturally. Isn't that what matters at the end of the day? I've always loved to see characters that are like me.

That said, I do intend to write a novel that explores ASD very openly. But ASD will be a turning point in the story structure. My unsuspecting MC finds out at the middle of the story, which changes everything.

 

It is a crime thriller that features a group of people detained against their will forced to solve a mystery in order to escape. In it's simplest terms. The circumstances are dangerous and the book itself is the start of a series. There is a "big bad" that cause the detainment and a smaller bad that caused the mystery. My MC is is obsessed with true crime working on the mystery at hand and ends up in the soup becoming a detective by the end of the first book.

Being that there will also be a ex-therapist and an FBI profiler within this forced detainment I find it highly unlikely that no one else will mention or at least ask if she's ever been diagnosed, if I decide to have her have ASD traits, it would be out of character for some of them, especially the ex-therapist who is a jerk, to not mention it, either to her or someone else at least in passing. They're sharing an enclosed space for a period of stressful time when coping skills aren't going to be enough to keep her from displaying behaviors and she'll be around trained individuals who may recognize it, so I've written myself into a corner, outline wise, when it comes to leaving it implied.

Also, I guess never liked that. It's an internalized thing. I wasn't allowed to be diagnosed growing up. It's why I wasn't till nearly 30. My mother wouldn't allow it. No child of her's could be Autistic. So it feels like I'm punishing my MC in the same way when I leave it implied. Why can't she have the label as well? Am I ashamed of it? Is she? Are her parents? That's so much stuff that I don't want for this book and having her diagnosed is an easy way to show she had at the least medically supportive parents growing up.


I don't understand why creating an autistic character automatically would make people assume that it would be informative or preachy to be honest. I don't know any examples to think of, I think I would have understood a lot more if those were given, like I had given in my comments. If I changed autistic to idk Ugh idk diabetic I don't think that it would have been the same reaction, and I think that is where my confusion comes from. I don't treat my ASD like it's this big thing to keep implied, I'm open with it, I wear it on my sleeve but it's also just part of me. Again like a diabetic, with an alert bracelet, you know about it but you forget a minute later because we're talking about music now and what does that got to do with your friend's blood sugar. You won't have to think of that again unless it's time for a meal or she starts acting super strange, her sugar might be off. Sure it needs to be a small thing in the back of your head but it's not a constant 24/7 paranoia like a lost child panic. So for example, in a story if I were writing and continuing with the idea that she's a diabetic and she checks her sugar in the morning, I would just think that's part of her character, not something that's overly informative about diabetes or preachy? It's the difference between having her check her sugar, and having her go into a blood sugar coma and her doctor making a grand speech about how all of this could have been avoided with proper diet and exercise. Like I tried to say earlier I understand intent. I understand having things only be part of a character.

If people don't want to read something with a MC who has any disorder or illness I understand, what I don't understand is the assumption that work will be preachy because it includes a MC who has autism or a disorder. That upset me to be honest.

 

T

To be honest assuming work is going to be preachy just because it includes an autistic MC offended me and I don't see any value in trying unsuccessfully in attempting to get you to see my point. I've tried and realized I'm just repeating myself. You've said if I make it all about autism it will be "lame".
I said from the first post it wouldn't be all about autism.
You didn't need to say that.

 

You and me both. My parents didn't like the idea of it at all and I got diagnosed at 23, a few months ago. It was my mother who especially rejected it, as a matter of fact, so I guess we're pretty similar in a few ways. I'm fully aware of how much anger that can brew inside you. You were born this way and you want to be accepted for being that way. I get that. Everyone here does.

Then you should go for it. You can make it work. In fact, there must a way to do what you want. We don't live in the 1980s where ASD is a label to be ashamed of anymore. But the way you present your character matters. If you feel that you write an ASD character that presents themselves naturally, you certainly can try it and see how it goes.

I suspect markets would also play a big role here. If you publish at a market with the right group of people, I feel that this will make a massive difference. Now how you find that market is a whole other story.

Nobody here said that writing an autistic character would automatically make people assume that the book would be preachy, so please don't worry about that. You were only cautioned about approaching the book in certain ways that would. And I also share experiences that are strictly my own. You could possibly never even share anything remotely similar.

 

Two autistic characters I like are Anya from Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the protagonist (don't remember her name) in the show The Bridge. In Anya's case it was never stated or even really made clear whether she's on the spectrum or not, but many people who are say she seems to be. It might just be becaue she's a former Vengeance Demon who has become fully human, and doesn't really understand our ways or social cues. But quite possibly that was how Joss Whedon chose to deal with the idea of autism? He does use vampires and demons as symbols for various psychological conditions.



In The Bridge, the character has Aspergers and that's stated clearly, I think in many ways it makes her very interesting, she reacts often differently than someone without it would, and that makes her fresh and fascinating, and often she gets to say and do things we all wish we could.



Ok, her name is Sonya Cross* (hmmm.... Anya and Sonya? Weird coincidence—and they're both blondes). You might enjoy the show, she's an investigator. I really liked it, though I didn't see more than the first season I think. From what I understand after a while it became a real mess and just wasn't so good anymore. She's incredible in the role, and her male costar was as well. He sort of gets to play her counterpart—where she's cool and controlled all the time, he's emotional and passionate and goes unhinged at times. Character web. He works with Mexican police, and they're shown as unbelievably corrupt—basically they're controlled by the cartels. She's from the American side of the bridge (the border) and he's from the Mexican side. And in a way it's about the bridge and the border (connnection and separation) between their characters, and between the two countries they represent, which are essentially two different worlds—one where there's really no law and order, the cartels run everything, and one where law and order is still prevailing. The show is set on the border between those two worlds and is largely about the ways in which they overlap and interpenetrate each other (smuggling tunnels, networks used to smuggle people and drugs across, how far American justice can reach into Mexico if at all, and how much of Mexico's lawlessness can penetrate into the US).

* Weird—it says North in all the info I've found, but she says it's Cross when she meets the Mexican officer. Whatever.

 

I thinks it's too early to have those kinds of concerns. I checked out your bio here on the site, and it says you've only started up writing again about 3 months ago.

If I were you, I'd write the character exactly how you think she should be. Neurodivergent or typical or whatever, she and you are still human and still very relatable, so your insights translated to her character will have an effect on most readers especially because it's in writing. Emotions are common ground, even if the reason for experiencing those emotions may differ. The right story (and characters) is just the one you genuinely want to write about, especially when starting out.

The more immediate questions to be asking are:

• Does my scene craft reach a minimum market fiction standard? Emphasis on minimum there, as perfection is paralysis.
• Can I follow through and finish an original novel in spite of its many imperfections?
• Can I, through planning then editing, construct a thriller/mystery story?

After you've answered those questions, then you have room to think about viable markets if you are trying to write to the market. And that will involve research, beta readers, seeing what people are buying and (if you're going traditional) checking what publishers or agents are looking for.

It's so easy to think too far ahead when starting out, and it can lead to substantial discouragement.

 

I'm watching the pilot for The Bridge (It's free if you have Amazon Prime), and I just noticed, the theme song, or the song they started the first episode with anyway, says "Until I'm one with you, my heart will not go through." So they worked the theme even into the music, at least here. And it opens with Sonya and the Mexican officer meeting on the bridge. Perfect symbolism to set up what follows. Sorry, I know, off topic.

And I just realized how thematic her name is. Either Cross (the border) or North (she's from the US, which is the north side of it). I think that's the point, that she's capable of crossing the border between the two worlds.

 

I'm translating a book series at the moment that has left fans arguing about this.

In this particular series, the main character has NOT been diagnosed, and is not characterised as being autistic, because the condition hasn't been recognised in the time period (the 16th century or so) in which the story is set.

Many autistic readers see things in her that scream "autistic", and are adamant that she must be. Others don't see the same thing (I personally don't, but she could be. She could also be a lot of other things). The author has not stated either way.

The point here is - it doesn't matter whether she is or not. She reacts in certain ways and does certain things, and it makes her who she is. There is no need to slap a label on her to make her an interesting character, and readers are free to interpret her character how they wish.

The genre is mystery and politics, with a running thread of romance.

 

It's entirely possible to write a monstrous character who does terrible things in a manner that makes the character relatable at a human level.

It's entirely possible to write a saintly character who acts only altruistically and is still completely unlikeable.

Anything is possible, it's the execution that counts.

In answer to the OP, yes, absolutely it's possible to write a character with ASD that works well within the composition. It's also possible to do that poorly. It's still all in the execution.

Someone with first-hand experience of any human condition is likely to have insights that others, who don't have that first-hand experience, do not. That can inform a narrative with authenticity. It can also overly involve the writer to the detriment of the reading experience. Execution!

I do prefer to read things that allow me space, as reader, to conceptualise as I see fit and good writing, in my opinion, does not replace the reader. Whether you choose to identify your character as someone with ASD or not, the character must still live and breathe as a recognisable person, not just an illustration of a particular condition. If I read something that identifies a character as ASD, with a theme that people with ASD should be accepted for what they are, then I feel I'm being preached at on something that I don't actually dispute. I tend to stop reading those books, better yet, never start them.

Write your story with your characters as you see them. Allow them to fully inhabit the world you create and, if you do it well, hopefully you'll get it published and find a readership. ASD, explicit or implicit, is not the defining element. I'd also suggest it's important to receive feedback in the same fashion as we all must do, however invested we might be in what we've written.

 

It's really nice how similar we are!
I'm super happy for you that you got your diagnosis congrats! I know how big that can feel. Trust me. I'm so grateful you got it at 23, rather than 30. Your 20s are so impactful on who you develop into as a person so accessing treatment if you decide you want it and just learning about how autism interacts with your life during that time in your life... I have to admit, I'm a little envious, I personally think it will help a lot. I also think being born 10 years later than me will make a big difference when it comes to acceptance. I'm sorry you had the same issues with your parents as I did. I don't know if this is warranted but if you ever need someone to reach out to about internalizing that, I get it. I'll check my messages so just reach out.

When it comes to the preaching line, I think that also might be an issue of my complete and total inability to read tone in general let alone online heh. I get a bit defensive quite easily and just read it as them assuming the work would be preaching automatically. I call my error.
I agree with you on the market as well.
I'm not sure I can keep up with the forum environment to be honest though. I don't think I'm cut out for it. People don't seem to understand what I say and seem to assume I have an attitude. The post just seems to upset me more than help and that's not what I intended. I don't think it's really a gentle enough environment which is fine. It wasn't advertised as one. I understand. I just need something different. Everyone is different. I understand.
I hope you keep up with writing. I bet you're going to be a big success.

 

I understand what you mean. ASD impacts communication quite severely. Talking to people can feel excruciatingly painful and I relate to that pain 100%. I myself struggle here a lot of the times. Being around neurotypical people is just not easy.

But I really do think that most of the members here are nice. They genuinely do try their best to be nice because it goes both ways. We ASD people find it hard to communicate with neurotypical people. But neurotypical people also find it hard to communicate with us. I'm understanding of that and if someone here ever says something stupid that is rooted from a lack of understanding, I keep a polite tone and compose as thoughtful of a reply as I possibly can.

This is how I mainly deal with this place. The main thing is to never take anything personally and to be polite. I try my best. Everyone tries their best. We make this community work one way or another.

 

I struggle to understand tone in person let alone online. I misunderstood, got defensive and for that I admit my error. I did not understand that they meant if until it was explained to me in a way by I could understand another autistic .

Autism will not be the focus of the plot nor will it be the focus of the character.
I want to express autism authentically and not as a parody it will not be a "super power".
When it comes to your comment about not making it a word from our sponsor, I planned to have her, have a particular behavior or coping skill during stress. I personally used to walk on my toes in circles when I was stressed. (I still toe walk a bit but I require a cane now and physically can't even if the instinct is there.)Girls walking on their toes is actually a commonly missed sign of autism.

During a moment I'm using to pace the story, where they're waiting for something. I think in this case one person in particular to crack a code only they can solve. As they all sit in a room together. I planned to maybe have her do this. She would have already done it a handful of times through out the story, rarely, but enough that it's not only pulled out for this. Then, having it with her toe pacing ex-therapist freaks out because she accidentally crushes his last cigarette in the room etc.
The FBI guy can try to step in saying "wait she can't help it" -therapist won't care -
Gives him the opportunity to go on a rant that he "doesn't care if she's autistic the prima ballerina bs is annoying as heck and its gotta go."
I don't want to say it's a throwaway line but it is.
I plan for them to all kind of react by being a bit uncomfortable because you would be. It's uncomfortable to have someone reveal someone else's medical stuff without their consent if it's true or not.
The MC will just lower her heels so she's standing on even feet square her shoulders before shrugging. Saying the equivalent of "Yeah and?" Basically outlining the theory everyone has said, yes I'm autistic and your point is... she will acknowledge it for a moment but it won't really be a discussion. She'll just pick up the broken cigarette and use a trick to fix it for him before the scene ends with the code being broken.
Thank you for your advice.

 

I always loved Anya lol.
I thought she was a good representation of what it feels like honestly. I show clips of her to my partner sometimes and say "This is me." So it really does feel that way at times.
I will have to watch the other show when I get a chance. Right now I've been basically going through all the detective shows on Britbox and there are a TON. I love it!

 

Matthew Gray Gubler in Criminal Minds.

 

What about Monk? I'm not sure if he was autistic though. It seems like autism can make someone well suited to investigation.

 

There are different kinds of conversations with different tones in different parts of the forum, as you'll have found out by now probably. Writing Process might have more open conversations like this one. The Workshop is all very focused. Competitions is just people posting their stories and poems and others pointing out which ones they voted for and why they are excellent. In other words, if you struggle with some of this forum that doesn't mean you have to stay out of all of it. Also, the longer you lurk, even without much commenting, the more you understand the denizens and who has an abrupt way and so on.

Despite that it is of course harder to convey and understand tone online. Last month I made a crass joke which inadvertently upset @ps102, despite me having quite a number of friends and family who are autistic so you'd hope I'd know better. Some hasty and sheepish backtracking from me and he was nice enough to let it slide. We're all fumbling around, and we're all here to get better at communicating through the written word. Misunderstandings inevitable.

 

Being 'autistic' (I use the word in inverted commas, because the condition is definitely not the same for everyone on the autism spectrum) is tricky. I was diagnosed with the condition about 20 years ago, but I also scored fairly high on the spectrum. An autistic person's reaction to the world is as individual as he/she is.

I don't think that being 'autistic' is something you can learn from the movies. It's something you need to experience for yourself. It's a neurological condition, nothing more, that wires a person's brain a little differently. I can't speak for others, but for me, I shy away from loud noises and loud places, try to avoid arguments, and find myself uncomfortable in large crowds. This mostly manifests itself in pubs with live music -- I've taught myself to tolerate parties (but not ones with loud, incessant music), and inner-city noise.

On the other hand, I deal much better with smaller gatherings. I try not to say anything before thinking about it, or post anything without double-checking it (to make sure I don't unknowingly offend someone). I enjoy reading new books, learning new things, and researching new things for books that I write. I especially enjoy wordplay of all kinds, even more so if it's funny or unexpected, and try to use it in my own writings.

All of this makes me sad and very angry when someone on the news, when he/she is caught in wrong-doing of some kind, tries to blame it on his/her 'autism'. Autistic people have it bad enough without douchebags like this making the public perception worse. I can only speak for myself, of course, but I can't think of many autistic people who would knowingly hurt someone. Since autistic people are (generally speaking) peaceful, and shy away from arguments and physical altercations, it makes no sense for us to provoke them.

But that's just my point-of-view. I'm sure everyone has their own.