1. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    23,344
    Likes Received:
    26,838
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border

    the great australian plaigiarism scandal

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by big soft moose, Jun 16, 2022.

    This is interesting - It had passed me by til my sister who normal lives in Perth WA pointed it out

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jun/15/parts-of-john-hughess-novel-the-dogs-copied-from-the-great-gatsby-and-anna-karenina?fbclid=IwAR20eqIhRdlEyxK86Im7L1_wxc1sKGljOXCdBoA51G-7Vfhp31wlbXwWXgM

    and the authors defence

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jun/16/john-hughes-i-am-not-a-plagiarist-and-heres-why?fbclid=IwAR123Ew5_RrUlDhT6WioaSXrnHjbP7tb4xjjYcPXAFjIUxgVGyyHcDR0pv0
     
    Seven Crowns likes this.
  2. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    6,905
    Likes Received:
    6,023
    Well, that's interesting. I don't think I buy Mr. Hughes' defense, though.
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  3. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2021
    Messages:
    1,714
    Likes Received:
    1,361
    Just ... wow!

    From the first link:

    If you believe that, could I interest you in a great deal on a bridge in Brooklyn?
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  4. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    19,011
    Likes Received:
    35,742
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    I couldn't even get through his excuses. His example of something that other authors did has nothing to do with his own copy/paste, and to say that writers recycle stories is true, but he's not being accused of pulling something like West Side Story out of Shakespeare without acknowledgement. And he wasn't referencing, like in The Bridge when Iain Banks' MC tells himself, while driving home one night, not to think about red sharks or white whales (from Hunter S. Thompson's Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas), he was just stealing lines of prose that worked well when someone else wrote them.

    Nope, utter bullshit.
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  5. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2021
    Messages:
    1,391
    Likes Received:
    1,004
    I'll probably write more about this, but the author's opening statement is ridiculous. To defend his instances of almost word for word copy and pasting, he cites this:

    Now, I'd say the differences between the two passages are enough to where Marquez's passage is not plagiarism but enters a possible 'homage' territory. At worst, it's debatable whether it is or isn't plagiarism and I'm sure there would be a large percentage that would say it is not plagiarism, equal if not greater than those claiming that it is plagiarism. I'm not sure if there would appear to be more similarities in the original Spanish, but I doubt that would change much.

    But that's far from Hughes' many offenses, most of which are similar to this one:

    Fitzgerald, from 'The Great Gatsby':

    "He smiled understandingly—much more than understandingly. It was one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it, that you may come across four or five times in life. It faced—or seemed to face—the whole eternal world for an instant, and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor."


    Hughes, from 'Dogs':

    "She smiled at me then, one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it that you might come across once in your life, if you were lucky. It faced—or seemed to face—the whole eternal world for an instant, and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favour."

    I don't know how anyone can claim these similarities are anywhere close to being comparable to the Marquez/Buendía passage.

    Sidenote: My auto spellchecker just gave me a thought inspired by the movie 'Secret Window' (not sure if it's in the book). A crazy novelist begins to stalk Johnny Depp's character for plagiarizing his story, and he yells at him "I don't know what's worse, you stealing my story, or changing the ending!" and I just had an image of Fitzgerald rolling over in his grave yelling "I don't know what's worse, Hughes stealing my work, or changing my words back to that annoying British spelling!"
     
  6. Seven Crowns

    Seven Crowns Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    2,180
    Likes Received:
    4,013
    Yeah, there's no earthly way a person would generate matching sentences like that and not know what they're doing. I accept that matching phrases are inevitable. It's very difficult to come up with a phrase that's never been written by anyone else, and you do draw the works of other authors into your own. You are something of an amalgamation of everything you've read. But generating a matching paragraph with only a few words nudged about? No. I don't believe that. The number of times it happens in that single book doesn't help his cause either.

    I'm just surprised anyone would try to rewrite the sources he was using. The Great Gatsby? How are you NOT going to get caught? It's like "In a hole in the ground there lived a . . . hawbit."
     
  7. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    19,011
    Likes Received:
    35,742
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    And here's how Isaac Asimov handled some probable inadvertent plagiarism:

     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  8. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2021
    Messages:
    1,714
    Likes Received:
    1,361
    Mr. Hughes' defense (??) strikes me as more of an admission that he has been plagiarizing for his entire career, and is mightily chagrined that he has finally been caught out.
     
    Oscar Leigh and Iain Aschendale like this.
  9. harlequin-writes

    harlequin-writes Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2022
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    Western Australia
    I admire him. He's so inspired that he's inspired on a word-by-word level! :superlaugh:

    Previously a great Aussie plagiarism scandal was in the horror community. A famous poem had a fresh line written in response to each existing line, so like an abababab arrangement of the original poem and the author's new material. Their intention was to then delete the original lines and see what was left. Only...they forgot. And submitted. And had it published. And...well, drama.
     
    Lili.A.Pemberton likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice