1. Bakkerbaard

    Bakkerbaard Contributor Contributor

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    Sweating Bullets

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Bakkerbaard, Oct 23, 2023.

    As much as I would now like to talk about Megadeth (yay, I managed to work it in!), this is just about the past tense of sweating bullets.

    Every option I've found smells wrong, so I need a human eye.

    1. Rigby sweated bullets when Rooney passed him by (this is it according to the wiki)
    2. Rigby was sweating bullets when Rooney passed him by (I think I prefer this)
    3. Rigby sweat bullets when Rooney passed him by (this was my initial thought)

    Which one would you expect to read in a story that's been 3rd person omnipresent the entire time?

    And while I'm at it: Ditch the "him" or no?
     
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  2. NigeTheHat

    NigeTheHat Contributor Contributor

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    Grammatically, I think 1 is the most accurate. It's a slight tense difference; 2 is past continuous, which implies Rigby started sweating bullets before Rooney passed him and carried on sweating them after, rather than him sweating them specifically when Rooney passed.

    Unless you're writing the kind of magic-realist thing where Rigby is literally rather than figuratively sweating bullets. Then it's 3.

    That said, I don't think the grammar really matters for something like this. I'd use 2 and drop the 'him', because I think it sounds better.
     
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  3. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Technically 'sweat' is probably the correct past tense of sweat, but we're fiction writers, we don't use correct grammar if it sounds awkward or strange (as sweat bullets does).

    That said though, all of them sound a bit strange and forced. Probably the only form that really works is sweating bullets, and you'd have to do some awkward sentence gynmastics to make that fit. I think it might be the kind of darling you should murder, but if you're determined to stuff it in there, I'd find a way to manipulate the sentences so you can say 'He was sweating bullets.' Sweated bullets and sweat bullets just don't sound right.
     
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  4. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Maybe what would work best is to have the guy say "Why are you sweating bullets?" Or whatever variation of that works in the context, maybe just "You're sweating bullets."
     
  5. Set2Stun

    Set2Stun Rejection Collector Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    I agree that "sweating bullets" is the least awkward use of the idiom, if you're dead set on using it. But I think Xoic is right in that you are probably better off choosing another way to describe this - which brings me to another point. What are you trying to describe? It seems like the idiom is properly used to describe nervousness and anxiety, though it might also be used to suggest that someone is perspiring profusely (or both, I suppose).

    I always find etymology fascinating, so I did a little googling. "Sweating bullets" is probably derived from "sweating blood," a condition known as hematohidrosis, a rare condition where an individual experiencing extreme fear or stress can literally sweat blood (capillaries near the sweat glands burst).
     
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  6. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I'd go with "was sweating bullets." Cliches aren't meant to be conjugated unless you're deliberately trying to poke fun at the cliche. Like flipping "screwed the pooch" to a "pooch screw." The use of the cliche denotes a certain tone or affect.
     
  7. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I don't know where the term originated, but it seems like it might have been in noir or hardboiled detective fiction. It's exactly the kind of hardass, over-the-top and gun-centric tough-guy talk I'd expect from Hemingway or Chandler.
     
  8. Not the Territory

    Not the Territory Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    I vote number 2. Sounds more like a state than an action, and also matches the phrase.

    Sweating cannonballs might make the reader pay more attention. Depends on if you like messing with common idioms or not.
     
  9. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Last edited: Oct 24, 2023
  10. Bakkerbaard

    Bakkerbaard Contributor Contributor

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    Even in the context of the Megadeth song it's not a darling to me.
    I've no problem sweating a few bullets at it and replacing it with something better, but with what? Sweating bullets does describe the situation better than "RIgby was worried."

    Alright. Bear with me.
    Rigby was involved in a murder. He didn't pull the trigger himself, but he was there when the shooting happened. Rooney is the only one who has seen them because, ehm... he's the one they shot.
    I promise this will make sense in the narrative.
    In this scene, Rooney is very not dead anymore, and he's walking to the bathroom in the local diner, for which he has to pass Rigby's table. Rigby can't be sure Rooney will recognize him or not, and tries to look as inconspicuous as possible, which is hard when you're sweating bullets, I'd imagine.

    The previous chapter closes with Rooney getting up from his table to go, while we remain focused on what's going on between his friends, still at the table.
    The next chapter starts at Rigby's table, where he is sweating bullets when he sees Rooney approach.

    I figured using "sweating bullets" would be a nice, concise way of describing Rigby's state, but I'll take anything that works if the chosen idiom isn't up to the job.

    I love screwing with idioms. But I'm not gonna do it here. It'll probably ruin what little tension there is.
     
  11. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Maybe just modifying the sentence a bit would make it sound better. Something like—

    Damn, Rooney was making a beeline straight to the restroom, and unfortunately Rigby's table was right in between. The bastard was going to stroll past within inches of him. Rigby did everything he could to disappear while trying not to be too conspicuous—swiveled away, tilted his head down a bit, and put up a hand to rub his eyebrows while covering most of his face, but he was sweating bullets the whole time and felt like he was sitting in the spotlight.
    This way it isn't the main verb, and is separated from it by a few clauses. I also added the 'felt like he was sitting in the spotlight', because ending on it felt a bit abrupt. Lol, maybe I've just made a big mess of it all now, I can't tell.
     
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  12. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I think it's a bit much that he was involved in a shooting and now he's sweating bullets. I would find another way to get what you're trying to say across without any sweating bullets.
     
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  13. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    If you decide to use something different, something like:

    He was as jittery as a jackrabbit...

    And now he was shot to pieces...

    He was as fidgety as a monkey on pep pills...
     
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  14. Not the Territory

    Not the Territory Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Oh I thought it was a humorous situation where hyperbole would fit (sweating aircraft carriers etc...). Well, in that case I'll add my hat:

    My humble suggestion is not to use a phrase at all if going for a tense scene. They tend to be subtractive from meaning in spite of their comparisons, unless that particular narrative voice (say, Rigby) likes to use lots of sayings, in which case it fits. If this is Rigby's POV, he'll probably first notice he's sweating in one of three ways:
    1. A breeze cools the sweat on his forehead (possibly from the ambiguously alive gent walking past him).
    2. He touches his head/face, finds it wet.
    3. It's enough sweat that a drop or two runs down his face. He might even hear it hit the table.

    I think no. 3 would be the most impactful.

    Something like:
    2 cents and all that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2023
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  15. Seven Crowns

    Seven Crowns Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    I think this is a tricky question because you're dealing with an idiom. "Sweating bullets" acts as a unit. The reader needs to know what the entire phrase means. It's the type of thing that you don't break apart to grasp its meaning like you would with a normal verb and object. The meaning is just understood as a whole. It's assumed as part of the language.

    Other examples like this: playing hooky, jumping the gun, eating your words, etc. There are many of this form.

    The tense must always fit, and yet the bigger idea you need to hold on to is the idiom itself, and that's because it's understood as a whole and not by its parts. While you still need to get both the usage and the tense right, the idea of that connected idiomatic unit almost supersedes the tense. I would choose the most common version of it. You can actually find this by looking it up in Google Ngrams. "Sweating bullets" is far more common than any other version of the phrase. It's about 6 times more common.

    Now that's not necessarily true with those other examples (for example, "jumping the gun"). That's why other idioms can have more leeway, while "sweating bullets" feels more temperamental. It feels as if it should be the -ing version even though other tenses are possible. It's just because that's the most measurably common usage.

    So if it were me, I would change the sentence to fit "sweating bullets." That isn't to say "sweated bullets" is wrong. It's just that your ear will realize that something isn't hitting the norm (not "ringing true," to use another idiom). It's all about common usage, IMO, and that's because we're talking idioms. You could break it and be okay, but sticking to the norm will erase the problem.
     
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  16. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Obviously because of Megadeth.
     
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  17. Seven Crowns

    Seven Crowns Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    Yeah, there were like 6 Dave Mustaines in the video, haha.

    I can't listen to the remastered version of that. Seems like that's the only streaming version though. I need the original.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2023
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  18. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Lol I just watched the video, they're all barefoot and pissed off. Good Old Dave and his anger management issues.
     
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  19. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    #2 sounds the best when I read it out loud. But the lack of context for the snippet makes it hard to tell.
    I think I would ramp things up to this point, rather than jump straight to it.

    Rigby saw Rooney enter the diner. He could feel his heart beat increase just from the man's presence. As Rooney moved through the diner in his direction he felt himself start to sweat. The closer Rooney got the more Rigby could feel the sweat dripping off him. Until he was sweating bullets as Rooney passed him.

    Let the build up help to suck the reader into the tension of the scene.
     
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  20. Bakkerbaard

    Bakkerbaard Contributor Contributor

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    There are six cats and two adolescents in my house. Big messes are kinda my thing now.

    And as per a observation by Deadrats, the whole "sweating bullets" thing is probably going to be moot soon.

    Yeah, that's a thing I hadn't considered. Then again, there's almost a complete book between the shooting and the sweating. I wonder if I couldn't just pass it off as "my kind of humor."

    It's a lot, for just two cents. And I can work with that, getting some ideas here.

    That dissonant note. It's not exactly wrong, if you like jazz or black metal, but it's not what you expected to punctuate the chorus.
    And it's the exact reason that originated this thread.

    I don't think I actually ever heard the remastered version. I still buy CDs, and listen to the MP3s I make of those to put on the car stereo.

    Hey, most of the time he wears shoes, though.

    Agreed, but it'll be false tension. Mine is not the kind of book that keeps you guessing.
    I'll play it like Rooney didn't recognize Rigby, but we all know he's gonna tell the MC (which Rooney isn't) who he ran into when he gets back to his own table, and we definitely know the MC is not gonna stay seated to finish his chicken legs.
    I think that's my main problem throughout. I have enough opportunities for tension, but I feel it's pointless because I know what's gonna happen next, so I assume the reader does too. I'm not exactly a genius.
     
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  21. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    My advice is don't do it. I think it would sort of cheapen the story.
     
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  22. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Christ, now I can't get the Megadeth solo out of my head. That descending arpeggio-ish part toward the end. I've played it twice and it won't leave!
     
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  23. Bakkerbaard

    Bakkerbaard Contributor Contributor

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    You're welcome!

    Also, when I need to wash my brain, I prefer humming the intros to Sunshine Of Your Love and In-a-gadda-da-vida in turn. That always seems to confuse my music muscle enough to forget about the rest.
     

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