Writing concerns - Part 2 - No return on investment

Now that I'm more or less at peace with Part 1 of these series, (a big thank you to everyone who responded!) I would like to discuss another concern that works as a writing block and stops me from writing sometimes.

Even though I consider myself a hobby writer, I am still interested in being published some day. This is where a chilling wave of dread stops me in my tracks. There's so much to consider and unpack here. Least of all the investments that need to be spent; both time and financial.

Consider this:

Time and money spent investing on author website (ongoing costs and continuous updates)
Time and money spent investing on finding the target audience and securing them in some way
Time and money spent investing in editing your work, designing your book cover and all other costs related to self publishing
OR
Enormous amount of time spent trying to go the traditional publishing route that involves major hits to yourself esteem and time investment in terms of rejections

And what do you get in return?

No certainties? A hope that one day you may secure a modest income, which may not even be enough to cover your expenses?

As I continue writing for enjoyment, I do ask myself whether taking a step further is really worth it? Deep down, somewhere in my mind I know that it is, but I often struggle to get there.

Looking forward to your feedback

 

It's like a lot of professionals in the creatives. Only a tiny, tiny fraction of them make it, whether it's in music, acting, writing or whatever it might be.

The commitment is one factor that helps, but it's no guarantee. Some people never get that big break, and some strike it lucky. All you can do, if you want to go down this route is work at it to maximise your chances.

 

Consider for a moment how you are defining your return on investment. Is it purely in business terms, or it is in qualitative terms?
In business terms of profit versus investment then likely not. The 80/20 rule from sales seems to apply here. Where 20% of the people make 80% of the profits.
From the qualitative view, if you put out the best possible product you can, then word of mouth could spread because people like the work.
Either view is a gamble. As Wayne Gretzky once said,"I miss 1000% of the shots I don't take."

 

Thank you @Naomasa298. I hear you and I understand, but at the same time knowing that chances of striking lucky are low is not very encouraging. I agree though that pursuing other creative arts lands you in a similar situation. (perhaps even more so given the involvement of other people, at least with writing we can be completely reliant on ourselves)

 

Thank you @w. bogart. I like the part of your advise around "nothing ventured, nothing gained" and popularity being a fickle mistress one that finds you only when your craft improves and reputation begins grow. (potentially)

Maybe you are right, maybe I should look at writing as more than business and consider other benefits. (such as developing a skillset, having something interesting to say and influencing the perspective of others, I'm sure there are other benefits as well)

 

Perhaps this will help
Book Marketing: The 1 Strategy That Works

There was a gentleman named Gill Gerard, genius book of world records for car sales, who came up with the rule of 250. He talked with various print shops, and found on average the number of funeral announcements, and wedding invitations for bride or groom was 250. Based on that he looked at customer service, and approached it as each customer was potentially 250 referrals,for good service or the inverse for bad service.

 

Don't forget about beta readers and others that help with the development of any story.

 

In those sentences, Homer pretty much summed up what I was going to say, but with considerably more clarity and class than I could've managed. However, admiration for his succinct brilliance does not prevent me from elaborating.

Dreading a hypothetical future is a waste of time unless one is developing a rationale to avoid the time, effort, learning curve, and risks that go into becoming a professional. Not being snarky here, just noting fear and loathing in Beginner Land, which I recognize from close encounters of the personal kind.

If you love to write, you will write. If you write, you will improve. If you write something you think is worthy of publication, you will seek publication.

Trade publishing, by the way, not "traditional." It's a business. Manuscript rejections, while disappointing, aren't personal attacks against your worth as a writer and a mensch. They simply mean, "No, thank you, the project isn't right for me." Vicious personal attacks on manuscripts by agents and publishers are all but unheard of. Even if the manuscript is beyond terrible, scathing responses take too long to write. Professional time is better spent continuing to search email for an appropriate product.

Good luck and happy writing.

 

Whenever I do musical theatre classes, I always end up playing a pimp. The last time, I got offered a named role as the Engineer in Miss Saigon, who is... a pimp. I declined it. I felt it was starting to get personal at that point...

 

I guess I just act like one. My hos disagree.

 

Sounds like a pretty bad guidance counselor to me. I'm glad you proved them wrong.

I wouldn't call debating / dreading theoretical implications of a choice wasteful though. You are bringing your fears out of your subconscious and onto the surface where you can analyze them and dismiss them if they are not useful. Otherwise they always simmer at the back of your mind. (this is pretty much what I'm doing with these threads)

 

If I attempted to star in porn movies at my age, I wouldn't make squat in that either, but the journey would sure be fun af. In a lot of ways, writing is like porn.

Hope that helps!

Td-

 

The question is, are you only measuring your return in financial terms?

I can't tell you to let go of your ego - it's easy to say and not so easy to do, but you have to, to some extent if you're sharing your work in public, and understand that when you submit, you're competing against thousands of others and not take refusal personally.

 

Letting go of one's ego requires you find your own version of a room with puppies, cartoons on the TV, etc to banish your ego to. The concept is easy. The doing not so much. But finding a way to do it that works for you, seems to be a requirement.

Just as having a deep sense of self confidence that you not only can but will do it. Or you can write for your own pleasure which is another return on your investment.

Your standing at your own version of the crossroads. You need to choose which road you are going to take. But you can always backtrack and take a different path if your first choice isn't working for you.

 

If you want to get rich become a writer, no-one said ever. If financial reward is the measure, most of us would be better off driving a taxi in our spare time. There was another thread that's been dormant for a while asking what success meant to members. Many made the point that not everything of value translates to hard currency. It's still true. There's many reasons for each of us to pursue writing, both between us and within us. Some of the reasons I write are in conflict with other reasons I write. I don't expect to get rich, but still largely submit to paying markets because it seems a higher level of validation (and a few quid would be nice), unless a non-paying project looks cool. If we chase popular appeal as a primary focus, we'll end up spinning to the point of dizziness and probably still no wiser, leaving a body of work that's hollow and soulless. Best to write the thing that matters most, do it as well as possible, and wait for the reading public (idiots!) to catch up.

I've written some things that returned positive feedback, yet have no attachment to some of those pieces of writing. I've written other things that I'm proud of, that no-one cares to read. Go figure. There's probably others that are a happy blend of the two but they occur much more by accident than design.

 

Sorry to add so many quotes to one reply, seems I am a little late to this conversation but there are many good points many have made that I'd like to expand and share some thoughts.

Forgive me for being blunt, but you seem to hold a lot of doubt into publishing, worrying about a lot of things when the two highlighted parts in your OP points to a diminishing belief in writing to enjoy. The fears portrayed in the being self-published to venturing into the 'traditional route' to publishing should not burden you with writing. It is great to have ambition, even better to start planning ahead and seeing the challenges that you will have to encounter, but don't do so at the detriment of writing your story.

What many have said are very true. Selling your story is a business and you should look at it that way, but the product is your story and that needs all the dedication and heart to be readied and finished. Even when you have sent it to betas who are super impressed and encouraging, going the self-published route does mean you have to treat your story as a business and all those points you made (and more) have to be applied. Marketing is actually more vital than anything else and a member wrote that those who generate better sales through self-pub churn out books every 3 months or so.

You correctly pointed out the stresses in the trad-route to publishing and what many members have hinted at is what is 'success' to you?

The question of what do you want in return is not a question any of us can answer because this is something you want.

I understand that the whole process of writing a book, the drafts, the number of edits, to reaching out to readers, to making changes from feedback, to more editing and more editing mixed with the huge amount of self sacrifice and time spent ... feels like a process that should be rewarded, and maybe you wish to have some financial lift to say that this is worth it ... but this will probably lead to great disappointment.

You wrote that writing is a hobby, probably a very passionate hobby with stories close to your heart and that is very commendable and to be respected though this does not guarantee success in other fields.

I harbor the same dreams as yourself. Wanting to publish and have thought about everything you have written and more. I know the chances of 'success' in either route is very very small but I do not fret or worry about that future because the most important thing is to have a product that I need to make perfect. Even when I feel my story is ready and I have done the best I can, editors may tear it apart. Publishers will turn away and I accept this. If I go it alone, I have to do everything, and I am fine with this. You already know the steps but why worry? I worry that my story is too vague, that the readers I send it out too won't find it engaging. Look ahead but don't get worried over it.

Finishing a book till it is error free and of publishing standard is no mean feat. Many talk about writing but you need so much dedication to your craft to get to the end point. Get there first and then solve each step as you go along.

In the other writing forum I used to frequent, this was something self-pub wrote about too. They churned out books to differing levels of quality. They knew the system of what to do but consider pushing out a book every 3 months. The quality? The development of ideas? Is this your goal to be a writer?

A writer who I chat to a lot spoke that their first novel was a good success but the second one in their series did not do so well really because they did not invest in marketing. This made me think deeply about the self-pub route because you have to do everything and then it still may not be a 'success.' There are many who speak well of the self-pub route and speak ill of the trad-pub route and it is really dependent on the individual. There are no correct answers.

What Catriona said here is very true. Many writers that I came across spoke that after finishing their book, it is a business and you should treat it like a business in either route. Rejections will sting and Catriona is right that you should not view these as personal attacks... this is the same with feedback, but rejections, failure, disappointments (in my view) are always tests of your character. Everyone has heard about their favourite authors being rejected x amount of times before they 'made it,' so why worry?

I believe this is the most important question you have to answer. Answering this will set the dreams you wish to pursue in writing.

Again, I 100% agree with this statement. It may seem harsh but having a target focuses the mind to chase that dream. It eliminates the other possibilities thus providing you with clarity to move forward.

And this statement here is one that rings the most for me.

Every writer here has their own motivations to write, to create, to share. It will be for so many reasons and I doubt there aren't those here who have not dreamt that their story will be loved and admired by everyone and they send it out to others who encourages them to send to publishers and bang ... a year later and it is a multi-million best seller.

There is no harm in dreaming but the core reason why we all started to write is different for everyone of us. It is that fire that burns when we have our struggles, thinking that it is all a waste of time, I write because...

and that is something only yourself can answer.

I want people to read my stories, be taken away from this world and into mine. I would like to make some money but my motivations to write far excel these wants. I write to complete this journey, to prove to myself that I need to trust in what I create, to be open and honest with receiving feedback, knowing they can hurt but seeing which pieces of information I can take forward to better my stories and then make amendments and send them out again and take the hits along the way. I see writing as personal development, as an escape, as a medium where I can be my truest form and I want to complete this. Writing a book is not a lonely job, it requires you to write by yourself, but you need to place your trust in others so they can help you improve, thus you will always be open to being hurt.

The greatest achievement, I believe, is doing your utmost to finish a book. For me, that is one of the biggest return in my investment.

 

An interesting conversation - I enjoyed Part I as well. As others have already mentioned, writing isn't something worth considering in any sort of cost/benefit analysis. A writer who is only focused on financial compensation is doomed to be disappointed; one needs a different motivation, with any monetary benefits being perceived as happy surprises that might serve to keep you inspired to continue writing. Enjoying writing is a good one. I don't enjoy it, but my own motivation is knowing that I am at least trying to put my only natural gift to use. I've known most my life that I can write well without putting much effort into it, and in the past few years I've spent a lot of time trying to make the most of that. Trying is enough for me, though of course I still dream of signing a three book contract for six figures and telling my boss to go fuck himself.

I don't know how easy this might be for other people to do, but this is the mindset I keep regarding writing and submitting:
-at best I have a 1% chance of publishing a short story somewhere, or having an agent request more pages
-even if I think I am good (and if some others actually agree), I am almost certainly going to fail in nearly everything I do
-I am never going to make a living from writing

After writing my first novel and spending a lot of time researching the industry and the submission process, it wasn't difficult to adopt this mindset, even though I felt sure my debut effort was a real winner (shocker - it was not. It's really good for an amateur, at best). And that's fine. I wasn't bothered by the rejections, and I'm still not, even when submitting much better material now. Knowing that great success at writing is akin to making the final table at the World Series of Poker sets my mind at ease. There's no stress, no worries, because I have nothing to lose but the time I spend at my computer every weekend. And that's not really a loss; as I said, it means I am still trying, and that's what's important to me.

 

When growing older, money seems not as important BUT the personal experience you go through accounts for a lot.
I'd say go for it! (Note: mentioned this several times before but my own family dislike me reading & writing - think I'M A BLOODY IDIOT).

That said, I'm a better person for it. Hindsight is a wonder think