I've read a few things recently where one or more of the characters is SO unlikeable that they appear to be written specifically so that the readers will hate them. They aren't a direct antagonist, but are usually associated with the MC, but act in a way that constantly obstructs the MC, either because they're so arrogant, self-obsessed, selfish, feel the need to prove their superiority over the MC and everyone else, or exert some kind of undeserved authority. They have no redeeming or sympathetic qualities whatsoever. It's almost as if they're written just to keep the reader carry on reading to see them horribly killed or otherwise get their comeuppance. What do you think of characters like this? Would it make you keep reading, or give up in disgust? Have you ever written one or encountered one? Remember, these characters aren't even meant to be the main antagonist! This is the character type that TV Tropes calls "The Jerkass".
I have such characters in my main book series. I think they provide a bit of inhumanity to the text, which helps keep it realistic. I would keep reading, even if nothing happens to them. They exist as parts of life. Just remembering life and school days makes you realise these kinds of humans are not uncommon. Frankly, in my own work, the antagonist is more humane than these scumbags.
I wrote two or three of these characters (I called them "minor antagonists"). Hey, every Megatron needs a Starscream. My "Jerkasses" always had a motive of their own to make the MC's life hell -- something they were trying to achieve, and which my MC thwarted, for reasons of his own. As Madman hinted, these characters are as nothing compared to school bullies. At least you know that these characters will eventually get their comeuppance ... and it will be oh-so-richly-deserved.
I wouldn't be disgusted, but I would be skeptical about any character having absolutely no redeeming qualities at all. It doesn't sound realistic. So I googled "what is the opposite of a Mary Sue" and apparently there is an anti-Mary Sue trope https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiSue#:~:text=A%20Mary%20Sue%20is%20a,who%20never%20does%20anything%20right. And also there is the jerk-Sue trope https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JerkSue who is very much "it's all about me" https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsAllAboutMe It depends, too, if it is done for laughs. I think I might like it in that case.
Are you saying I'm unrealistic? But for real, I would argue that it's actually too realistic for a character to have no redeeming traits. Some people are genuinely monsters, but that's such an unreasonable thing to the common mind that it would make for poor fiction. In the same way that a good story has a reasonable through-line of cause, effect, chance, and motive which makes for believable fiction, that's usually, and in contradiction, an unrealistic quality if compared to reality.
Only if you refuse to drive your forklift when the other survivors of the zombie holocaust need you to because one of them argued with you about the lifting capacity of your forklift.
That's funny. I've known the light operetta Patience (by Gilbert and Sullivan) for decades, and yet I never associated the character Archibald Grosvenor with the Jerk-Sue ... although he even says he is one, almost word for word. Pardon me while I throw up. I guess I never noticed what a jerk he was because one, he's so eloquent about it; and two, he ends up winning the girl because the other guy (Reginald Bunthorne) is even more obnoxious. I guess that's what you get when you write satire. *tries really, really hard to find something good to say about the others ... while watching out for Damocles' Godwin* Even Stalin industrialized the Soviet Union (which enabled it to withstand Hitler), instituted free healthcare (for party members), education (in Russian only, thus excluding a vast number of minorities), and low-cost (cut-rate) housing. Or so claims the modern-day Russian Communist Party ... ... who actually wants to bring that era back, gods save us. Mussolini, on the other hand ... was an imbecile and a thug. But at least he meant well ...
Aaron, I'm not sure if you (or they) are kidding, but ... the modern-day Russian Communist Party (or some within it, at any rate) hold Stalin in such high regard that they want to bring Stalinist policies back ... especially the ones from the 1930s and 40s. I've read histories of that time, and I've heard first- and second-hand anecdotes that corroborate some of it ... so I have to ask: are these people certifiably homicidal? This is where the Jerkass character achieves god-like powers. "I am Ozymandi-ass, Jerk of Jerks! Look upon my works, ye masses, and despair!" (Sorry, Shelley).
No, I'm being serious. There are a bunch of people under thirty who believe communism needs to be brought to the US. Long funny-ish kinda story. We have a beloved maintenance guy here at the shop. This cat and his parents were able to immigrate from Cuba into the US sometime earlier this century (I'm not sure on the exact year, and I'm not sure if it was political asylum or not). Eight years ago, he got his citizenship, and we threw him a HUGE party here the night he got it. He's told us some harrowing tales of things he witnessed in Cuba. About two years ago, we get this one temp that was THE poster child of the woke ANTIFA crowd; dyed hair (purple and green), jacket, and backpack with various pins and patches of anti-capitalist and far-left groups and slogans. The whole nine yards. Good for him. I don't agree with his views, but he's got the right to express them. And while our shop is a little bit more tolerant of those who might not be a typical shop-rat, we're still a caustic environment. I work in the central receiving and tool room areas of our shop. I'm at my desk shooting the bull with the Cuban guy and another maintenance guy, and they happen to get onto the subject of politics. It was not soon afterwards, that someone sent that temp to my office area to set some intake filters. And the temp had a hammer and sickle pin on their shirt. The Cuban (who we call B) asks the temp about it. The temp explains they're a proponent of communism, and believe that capitalism is destroying America. The other maintenance guy and I just look at each other, because we know what's going to happen. B asks the temp what he knows about communism, and the temp rattles off a few propaganda things (the exact deets I cannot recall). B starts to explain to him what living under communism is like, and the temp pretty much calls him a liar. I lose it laughing. B tells this cat he's from Cuba and goes into more about what he went through there. And again he calls B a liar. I've never seen B get worked up and angry, but he was starting to. I was able to get the temp the filters and get him out of there before tempers flared too much. The temp only lasted another month before they quit. But yeah, you have them here. Not a lot, but enough to be concerning.
Sure, no worries. That certainly is concerning. (I'm happy to discuss it by PM if you wish - let's take it off-board). But to return to the point of the thread ... hmm. In real life, I think the people who only ever think of themselves, and have no redeeming qualities at all, are those who adopt a child-like POV, i.e. this: "WAH! EVERYTHING REVOLVES AROUND ME!! Everyone should bow to me!!! I WANNIT IT'S MINE! GIMME DAT IT'S MINE!!!" Toddlers think like that. But toddlers get a free pass. 'Cos ... they're toddlers. When most people hit the age of, say, four or five (?), they start to realize that hey, other people exist, and they start learning how to behave around people. Those that don't ... become one of these (in order of severity): 1. Common or garden-variety egoists. The ones you see in the grocery store. The ones normally known as "Keith" or "Karen". (And to avoid insulting Karens everywhere -- you know, fully mature women called Karen who are actually lovely -- maybe we should call such people "Kraken"? After all, they drag you down). 2. Demonstrators. But only the inarticulate and/or violent ones. The kinds that rampage on social media, or on the streets, because ... something something liberty something justice something. (The rest is lost in the noise). The cause may be noble, but when they start screaming incoherently, burning cars, looting stores, and intimidating others, my sympathy evaporates like ice-cream in summertime. I'm including the racists, sexists, anti-gays, transphobes etc. in here ... since they're often part of such rallies. Yep, all those lovely ... Emmy-award winners. 3. Criminals (especially unsuccessful ones). Think about it. Criminals are jerkasses par excellence. They usually have poor self-control and an over-developed ego. If you have something, they want it - whether that something is a bike, a car, a new TV, or even your life. Their motto is: "You have it, I wannit". A step above them are the crime bosses. And then ... 4. Crooked politicians, lawyers, and bankers who (respectively) write the laws that allow the crime bosses to roam free, represent them in court, and launder their money. Not funny, you guys. Oh, and of course: 4a. Crooked accountants who protect the crime boss from the tax office, cops who turn a blind eye, and priests who absolve them of their sins. All in exchange for a cut. I've no idea what proportion they represent of their particular industries, but it's more than enough. Again, yes: not all politicians etc. are crooks. And yes, a "squeaky clean" society (where everyone does what they should all the time) is unrealistic ... and frankly scary. But then, yadda yadda, you know the deal. Anywho, I've ranted enough. Sorry. *blush* Did I forget anyone? Please let me know and we'll add 'em to this List-o-Shame.
Characters like this can be annoying if done incorrecly. To me it comes off as very cliché like the bully who shoves guy into lockers AKA not very realistic. I do however, love when there is a more realistic reason for this happening. Maybe the a hole is actually an oppressor from a conquering army. He could be a camp guard or just a tyrannical figure who mistreats people for belonging to the "wrong" group.
Um, pardon? School bullies are not realistic? It would be nice if that were true, but school bullies do and have existed for a very long time. A school bully doesn't need a "realistic" (read: rational) reason to be a nasty POS. All the reason he needs is: Me strong. You weak. Shove! You fall down. Fun. (And yes, I suffered from school bullies for most of high school, mostly because -- as an immigrant who didn't know much English -- I couldn't do much to fight back. But things eased off a bit in senior high, when they realized that I understood Shakespeare much better than them. So I could strike a deal: lay off, and I'll help you with Shakespeare. Still, bullies suck. End of story).
I have a character like this. He is a womanizer and a secret noble (secret because they are in the midst of a war and his family basically lost, so he's in hiding plotting his revenge). He's a prominat side character that is suspicious of my FMC, but befriends her, and is highly inappropriate with her (he's a noble... he was raised to do and say what he wants. No one KNOWS hes a noble, so he comes off as a jerk). Anyway.... having beta readers from the WF and Fiverr comment about how much of an asshole he is made me cackle with glee. He starts out as a lovable yet hateable jerk, but then goes into "i hope he dies" jerk by the middle of it, and does indeed get his comuppance by the end.
Heh. Most of my antagonists are like that. One of them is a stuck-up noble who can't imagine anyone holding him to account. "I'll never get my comeuppance! Ever!" Another one is a former noble who mismanaged a battle quite badly and wants to get his reputation back, and doesn't care how many lives he ruins in the process. Yet another is a greedy spoiled brat who is put in a position of managing government money. (Bad idea). Spoiler alert: they all get their comeuppance.
I agree with this. When I joined band in high school, a group of senior boys would cram sophomores into bass drum cases and latch them. At least until the band director caught them in the act.
