Grumble grumble grumble... y'all know you're putting Uncle Homer out of business, right? Mocktails, plant based meat, vegan cheese.... 4,000 years of debauchery all undone in the last 24 months. 'Scuse me while I lay down in front of a bus.
Haha, no, it can't be that bad. Most sit-down restaurants around here have a veggie burger option now, and those ordering expect to pay a couple bucks more for it. I ordered a Beyond meatball sub from a place a couple weeks ago, it was awesome. Beyond sausage crumble at Pizza Hut, the Impossible Whopper. Delicious stuff that's got me ordering from restaurants again instead of making most meals at home. But yeah, the sharp decline in ordering booze at restaurants has got to sting. I'm guessing the only item available with better profit margins are fountain drinks.
Careful, they might hear you. Those cats do NOT play. I'm serious. When they put your balls to the bandsaw, don't say I didn't warn you. No, we've had that shit for year. Entire plant based menu sections. And I just rolled out mocktail menus at all of our stores. You want to talk profit margin? $18 for a specialty cocktail and $14 for a mocktail. They'll pound 8 of them. My beverage cost has never been so low! And if people want to conflate food with "thoughtfully sourced," "conflict free," and "diversity training," I'll give it to them at 74.5% gross profit. I'm just saying I don't want to live in a world of such things, which is why I'm lying under a bus right now. Tell my wife I love her.
No doubt. You should see the French in action. Famous story from about 20-30 years ago: the US attempted to levy a tariff against Roquefort cheese and the French retaliated by smacking Coca-cola products. Several billion dollars in proportionality there. The article mentioned the 1976 Judgement of Paris where Californian wine beat out French wine. They were, uh, not happy.
Yeah, like alcohol beer brewers. Or combustible petrol refinery. Don't forget to say metal copper miners—people might not know what copper you mean otherwise.
Hey, not if there's no dairy in the "cheese." That would be a non-dairy cheese maker. I like to picture an Anchorman throwdown where both camps beat the shit out of each other. Cheese people are crazy.
Right, but does vegan meat have any protein? And is vegan cheese as good for your bones as the real thing? Sorry if these questions sound stupid. *blush* I've never tried either, and don't know much about them, so I'm curious. Is there a specific brand or two I should look out for?
Haha. Big Dairy considers 'non-dairy cheese maker' a criminal oxymoron. I'm slightly sympathetic. The use of the words cheese and milk are debatable in the plant sense, possibly even misleading to consumers anticipating a similar nutrient profile (or whole-foods people seeking less-processed foods). But they have eyeballs and Internet and nutritional information is printed on the damned carton. If someone has the wherewithal to avoid polyunsaturated fats for example, he'll probably look up what foods contain it. Most of the semantic concern is coming from dairy's survival as an industry, in which much of their (usually govnt. funded) ad campaigns have merely stressed the importance of 'milk.' But it's just easier to call these renderings x-milk and x-cheese and everyone will know what you mean—you can't fight expedient semantics and they are similar in character at the end of the day. LAB is even used to ferment the vegan cheeses too.
Talking about veganism, we are invited to my brother's this weekend for my nephew's birthday party. That branch of the family are all vegan, so it will be a vegan meal. I had my sister's family over last weekend. We ate big huge rib-eye steaks. They were awesome. I barbecued. I feel like I should apologize for not being a vegan.
I was just at a 4-day meditation retreat and the food was all vegetarian. I'm usually a meat eater, so I was pleasantly surprised that I was able to contentedly live on that. But I'm not apologizing for going back to eating meat. I figure if it becomes clear to me that eating meat is somehow "wrong" I will adjust accordingly.
i don’t like this fake cheese development. at first i was going to write that it’s a sop to centrist liberals who want to feel that they are doing something for the climate by eating vegan cheese — and in this sense also a distraction from the true nature of that problem. is cheese production truly a part of carbon emissions? well apparently i imagine there’s a very interesting discussion that will be had about the definition of cheese: another verity discarded: great. New vistas are opening to me here—cf. Stout Cortez—and it likes me not. Who could have imagined that the very source and ground of cheese could become superfluous? How now brown cow? indeed…bring a fine old cow to Davos: they’ll flay you for it, and then compliment your private jet. Rockwell! thou shouldst be living at this hour: America hath need of thee, she is a fen, Wherein are mired her humble dairymen; Aristaeus is bearded in his bower; And Sam, our uncle, impotent, doth glower Upon these ravages. Rockwell, thy pen! Forswear the bliss of that Elysian glen! Inflame thy nib with all its olden power! Big Dairy, in these latter days grown small, Desponds; with rosy tints make her anew. For Rockwell, thou drew’st bovines not a few For that good vesp’ral Sabbath Magazine: Then we would hear in evening distant calls, And then the cowbells, silver and serene.
I don't know much about "fake cheese", but I do know that my stomach is sensitive to glucose, so I can't have more than one or two hunks of cheese (or milk with glucose) without feeling queasy. *ugh* Hence my earlier questions about plant-based cheese/meat: 1. Is it anything like the real thing? 2. What are some better ones to try? Thanks!
Plant-based cheese isn't quite there yet, but I will be happy to buy plenty of it when they figure it out and can make the price as palatable. The meats on the other hand, boy are they good. They're mostly available in the form of fast foods, my regular purchases being the Mexican ground round for tacos/burritos (almost indistinguishable from the ground up dead animals kind), pepperoni for my pizza subs, hot dogs, burgers. Probably the best one is the fake chicken nuggets. I would love to host a taste test for them. They're incredible, and you can make a nice fake chicken sandwich out of them, too. I am not sure what brands are available in other countries. I can only speak for Canada. I mostly buy items made by the Yves brand. They're very reasonably priced. If you want the most authentic experience, Beyond burgers "bleed" when you cook them, and they're probably about the same as Impossible when it comes to overall meat realism. If you crave that genuine experience of chopping up the flesh of dead animals and seeing that real blood seep out onto the plate and stuff, I don't think they'll ever come up with anything quite like that. The best alternative for that will be lab-grown meat. The nutritional value is pretty comparable to the real thing, though the sodium content is fairly high. I took these Italian soy-based sausages out of the freezer and snapped a pic of the label: I eat this kind of stuff fairly regularly, couple times a week at least. Coincidentally, I had my first blood test ever last week. Surprisingly, my sodium levels are smack dab in the middle of the normal range. My iron levels are on the higher end of normal. The only thing that was slightly low was my B12, but still not close to being considered deficient. I'm going to start taking a B12 supplement, though. Regarding the ethical question about eating meat, well, we know with 100% certainty that humans don't need it, even without the alternatives. In fact, they live longer lives without it. And there's no question about the environmental impact as well. I've learned that people get really worked up and defensive about being challenged on their decision to continue to eat meat, so I won't post all the articles and statistics or anything. The information's all out there if anyone wants it. Might be a fun debate room topic, though !
Actually we don't know 100% that mankind doesnt need it, we evolved as an omnivore, and there's a lot of questions about the environmental benefits of not eating it - when we consider that no meat or other animal products means no upland grazing which would be an ecological catastrophe for numerous species. Not to mention the number of animals and birds that are killed during the harvest of vegetables, or the ecological impact of soya monocultures, or the deforestation to grow soy, or the impacts of almond groves on wildfire potential,or the impact on the soil of vegetable cropping without manure which then leads to the carbon foot print of inorganic nitrates... and on and on Its my experience that it's the vegans who get worked up and defensive when their 'facts' are challenged - the information on both sides is there if anyone wants it but most people don't... threads on this nearly always devolve into slanging matches with neither side listening to the other. My basic position on this is eat what you like but don't try and force/guilt trip other people not to eat what they like. That aside the thing that i don't get about plant based products is vegan bacon, vegan sausage etc... if you've made the decision not to eat meat on ethical grounds why do you want to pretend you are eating meat instead of just eating plant products that look like plant products ?
They're trying to sell them to meat lovers as free money/new market. They already have the veggies cornered. Same thing with the mocktail movement. We sell "cocktails" to people who would otherwise purchase nothing. It's free money in the marketing model.
yeah but they taste horrible... no meat lover is going to buy vegan bacon instead of actual pig bacon mocktails is a bit different, i don't drink so i could see buying a mocktail on an evening out instead of just having a coke or a juice, so long as it tasted good... i don't really get alcohol free lager because it tastes like piss
Seeing as the environment got on just fine before animal husbandry was a concept, yeah I am pretty sure it would be just as fine without it. Especially that pesky slashing and burning of rainforests to clear more land for raising cattle, for example. The only cases I've found where it's necessary for humans to consume animal products is when they live in arid regions with few options available. Nomadic herding, like in Mongolia. Most animals raised for food aren't eating grass. They're eating grains in high-density feed lots. I say, let's just eat those grains instead. I've been through these discussions a few times, and the, "well, we're omnivores," argument comes up basically every time. Yes, we are capable of digesting meat (much better when it's cooked, of course). We're not obligate herbivores or carnivores. It's an odd argument to me as it really boils down to the question of if we can do something, should we? And the answer is no, of course not. Especially when we don't have to. This is another one that always comes up. Yes, of course animals are killed during grain, fruit, vegetable production. The same production that is being used to feed the animals that people are eating. Eliminate the animal eating, and you reduce that harm by a huge margin, if that's a real concern and not a whataboutism type of argument. 80% of the destructive soy crop you mentioned is used to feed meat animals. I like to think that I'm an open-minded and reasonable person, open to consider arguments against what I'm saying. I've been through the same counterpoints many times, but I've been unable to find any rational arguments for continuing this behaviour outside of, "I like it and I want to keep doing it," and "I live in an arid region where animal husbandry is the only way to produce food." I suppose there are some medical conditions where it's not possible to get enough protein without eating meat, and that's fine in my view as well. Oh - almost forgot - the economic argument. There are a lot of deeply entrenched, vested interests (lobbyists, government subsidies, billionaires) that will fight any transition to more of a plant-based food-industrial complex. But like with any industry going through changes, we know it's possible. Another thing that always comes up is someone will say, "well just buy grass-fed, locally-grown meat." All right, go for it. It's prohibitively expensive, but I'll agree that it's better than factory farming. We can eat grains, but we certainly can't eat grass. But then I'll ask, "oh good idea, when's the last time you bought some?" And the answer so far has been "never." I don't know a lot of rich people, though. It's just an idea (like many) that only exists so people can justify to themselves that they can continue the same behaviours that they enjoy, but without the guilt of facing reality. Because it's delicious. Eating ethically isn't about self-flagellation. I missed fast food a lot, and I am so happy I can enjoy those tastes again. Ideally, consumers who don't give a shit about morals and ethics will switch over to these products organically, but that will require them to taste just as good, and to be slightly cheaper, not more expensive, than the current options. Might help if governments swapped the industries they're subsidizing, for a start.
Thank you, Set2Stun. I had a look at plant-based meat now ... and unfortunately, it's simply overpriced here (like a lot of other food). Plant-based meat is about twice the price of normal meat. Soooo ... if I get it, I think I'll have to have it as an occasional treat, not an every-day meal. (I'm already eating fish 3 days a week. I alternate it with chicken twice a week, pork once, and vegie pasta once. Works for me. Just a wee bit boring, though). Agreed. If only everyone did the same with religion and politics, though. (But if they did, that means no more proselytizing and no more people telling me how I should vote... which means no more making fun of those people. *shrug* On the other other hand ... no more people knocking on your door to ask you if you've found Jesus. No more blowhards telling me to vote Republican, or Democrat, or whatever. It'd be a nicer world. Calmer. Fewer chest-beating Jesus-freaks and politics-junkies. Sorry -- I hope I don't have to say this, but just in case: when I say "chest-beating Jesus-freaks", of course I don't mean the vast majority of Christians, but merely that peculiar hard core that seems to think that hectoring me about Jesus for hours is likely to get me to worship him ... ... and the even stranger hard core that seems to delight in threatening me with eternal damnation if I don't. *shrug* Their slogan? "BELIEVE OR DIE!!!" Gee. Thanks for all the options ...)
